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Help please - head gasket gone??; Blown head gasket?
Topic Started: Fri Jan 19, 2007 7:49 pm (871 Views)
exciton
Newbie
[ * ]
Hi there,

I have just joined the prestigous Mercedes 190 E owners club - 1992 (K reg) 1.8 auto 260000 miles(!) but after 2 weeks I seem to have a major problem that I would be grateful for some advice. I have had very little 'mechanical' experience and had hoped to learn on this car but did not expect it to be quite this soon.

Essentially the car starts well and seems to run really nicely. The other day the coolant level light came on briefly and then went out on my daily commute. When I checked the water levels the system seemed to need approx 500ml to top it up (2 weeks before all was OK). Oil level is OK and pressure is OK (3) and temp is always approx 80C - never more. The next day I checked the coolant levels again and the tank was full of an off white/beige thick emulsion (see photo). This was clogging up all the pipes and the water pump was starting to make an awful racket. I tried to drain/clean out the top end of the system (pipes to radiator and thermostat) and then to top the system up temporarily with water. The water pump noise went away and the system seems to run OK again nice and quiet, power OK etc.

Looking through the threads it sounds as if it may be the head gasket - however there is no trace of water/emulsion in the rocker box/oil filler lid or on the dip stick. One thread suggests that it may be the autotransmission fluid but according to the dipstick this seems to be OK and the fluid is a nice and clean red colour.

Is this most likely to be the head gasket and if so should I stop running the car immediately? How much is a gasket set likely to be and where is the best place to buy them web/local motor factors ( I am in Cardiff by the way)? I have just bought a Haynes manual off Ebay and do not mind having a go at fixing this myself as I suspect an garage bills will be far in excess of the value of the car.

Thanks in advance for any help and advice here.

Mark


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kentronix
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I'm only really here for the Kitchens

hi mate, and welcome to the forum.

Its always best to get these jobs done as soon as you can but dave_irl drove with a failed head gasket for, well, actually I dont remember a time when it wasnt broken !!

The gasket itself is the cheap part, others will advise better than me but I would check your local mb dealer. They are sometimes suprisingly reasonable. Failing thet www.eurocarparts.co.uk
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smugla
Part of things
[ *  * ]
hello mate

DO NOT LET THE CAR OVERHEAT


i whould

1. do a full flush of the rad (im shure theres some threads about this)
2. check all hoses for leaks or might be loose
3. check water pump may have a leak (this may not be so simple as each time u switch the car off the pump may look fine but you have to keep check as one of my old mercs took 3 weeks to see the leak on the water pump.

you need to find out where the coolent is bieng lost


if the coolent is not lost from water pump or a hole in the rad or hose then it could be a number of other things but id start there
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exciton
Newbie
[ * ]
Thanks guys, so it definitely is the head gasket then? If so will I also need anything else other than the actual gasket set? I have heard that certain nuts and bolts are always so corroded that they always shear/need cutting off and so I will need those as well. Will I need a hoist to lift the head or is it something that can be done by hand?

Sorry for all the questions. In the meantime I guess I will have to get the old bicycle out of storage!

Mark
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Big Ben
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Sneaky 2.5-16 Driver!
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
There is a simple test for combustion gases in the water system that can be carried out by any competent mechanic. They may charge you £10.00 for doing it but it could save you a lot of expense if it is not the head gasket.

Before you start the job (if it is the gasket) find a good machine shop that is capable of skimming the head for you before it is re fitted. If you fail to do this the gasket may go again quickly!
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dave_irl
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Defector
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I drove my car for quite a while (nearly 2 years) with oily coolant, I flushed it regularly, (fairy liquid in the coolant tank for a day before hand really thins the mud out) but its a pain so if you can, just get it sorted! And it will only get worse, and worse, and worse....

You can still drive it, (I even raced mine up the strip at Santa Pod!!) but if you are a little more sensible than me I'd just get the job done as soon as possible. Im sure its a long trip to the motorfactor by bicycle! Head gasket set is quite cheap from GSF, and if you are mechanically minded you can do the job yourself etc.

If you have a mate who can help you can lift the head off you dont need a hoist or anything, but bear in mind it does come off complete with intake & exhaust manifold complete (you wont be able to take off the exhaust manifold while on the car, the bolts are a pig to get to). So you'll have to separate these components later on the bench. Possible with an angle grinder if your exhaust manifold studs were as bad as mine, on a 260,000 miler I would say they are!!

As Ben said you will need the head skimmed to make sure its flat for the new gasket, but the guy doing all my cylinder head work said that was only about £60..

The main problems we had when taking it off were:

-bolts on one of the exhaust downpipes were so fuggered that we had to cut the pipe (not a problem for me as I was looking at getting 4 branch anyway to finish off my exhaust system)

-one of the cylinder head bolts turned to butter, the T16 bit was obviously tougher than the bolt. Chiseling will not work, so in this case, get a suitable sized nut, if you have access to a machine shop get them to bore out the inside so it fits down over the problem bolt like a collar, fill up with weld, big long extension bar on your socket and she should be free! Thats how we did it anyway..

Let me see other tips, when you are taking out the pins that hold in the upper timing chain guide rail, the bolts that hold in the thermostat housing are the perfect size to screw into the pins, then a claw hammer gently against the block will prize them out. You'll see what I mean when you do it, its in the Haynes too.

Other than that its all nuts and bolts really, if you have other problems just ask, Im sure I forgot something we encountered during the job.



:)
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exciton
Newbie
[ * ]
Thanks for all the useful feedback and thoughts all. I guess it is likely to be the head gasket as I have checked the service history and it has not been changed in 260000 miles - infact nothing engine-wise has been touched for the the entire lifetime of the car apart from plugs, filters, oil and a timing something or other so testamant to German engineering.


Anyway, one quick (and final) question. In order to see if it really is the head gasket gone could I connect the transmission fluid cooling pipes together and thus bypass the radiator altogether? Then run the car for a bit and see if the emulsion returns in the coolant system (having flushed this out) or am I likely to completely knacker the transmission if I run it with no cooling?

Thnaks again,

Mark
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smugla
Part of things
[ *  * ]
smugla
Jan 19 2007, 08:49 PM
hello mate

DO NOT LET THE CAR OVERHEAT


i whould

1. do a full flush of the rad (im shure theres some threads about this)
2. check all hoses for leaks or might be loose
3. check water pump may have a leak (this may not be so simple as each time u switch the car off the pump may look fine but you have to keep check as one of my old mercs took 3 weeks to see the leak on the water pump.

you need to find out where the coolent is bieng lost


if the coolent is not lost from water pump or a hole in the rad or hose then it could be a number of other things but id start there

start here then take it one stage at a time its like going to the doctors you can mis diagnose a fault if you dont go through each stage one step at a time
yes it maybe the gasket but u have to find out what REALY is the problem and what CAUSED the problem one stage at a time
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exciton
Newbie
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Hi Smugla,

Thanks for the advice which I followed over the weekend just gone - I should have said, sorry. At the moment I cannot see any leaks at all in the system (unless they are hiding like yours was or at the back of the engine/internal cabin heater) and I wondered if the 500 ml or so that appeared to be lost was somehow blown out when the oil/water started mixing and maybe the system overpressurised or the rad. cap needs replacing?


Cheers

Mark
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smugla
Part of things
[ *  * ]
no worries mate

it sounds like u have got a problem there then

so is the car still loosing coolent then it may be the gasket some one did mention somthing about the gearbox rad? i may tottaly be wrong here as im no mechanic
the problem is labour i whould get a few estemates on the job and follow daves advice

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