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Changing Timing Chain And Valve Clearances; Some pictures
Topic Started: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:36 pm (21,879 Views)
Cosmo2.5-16
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I recently changed the timing chain and done the valve clearances on a 86 190E 2.3-16
Took a few pictures to give ye a idea of whats involved.

First thing measure the valve clearance with a feeler gauge,

Posted Image

I have a data sheet (see picture) this is were I write down the measurement and do a bit of adding or subtracting later on when I have all the valve clearances done.
This is a Mercedes 2.3-16 service book I have, I photocopy that page and write on the page rather than the book.
Posted Image

After I get all my measurements, it's time to remove the Camshafts,

Posted Image

Once there out of the way I can pick up the buckets take out the shim and measure them.
Only do one at a time.

The bucket
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The shim
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Here's were i measure the shim with a micrometer
Posted Image

What happens here is that,
Cylinder 1- Exhaust Valve 1
The measurement i got with the feeler gauge when the cams were in was 0.08mm and the measurement of the shim was 3.05 and the value I want is 0.10mm - 0.20mm cold. What I aim for is to have the values across the exhaust at 0.15mm, so what i want to do is subtract 0.08 from 0.15 and it gives me 0.07 . Now I subtract the 0.07 from the 3.05 and I get 2.98mm. This is the thickness of shim that is required for that valve.

The reason why I subtract is that the valve clearance had gone tight and I want to reduce the shim thickness. If the valve clearance had gone lose I would be adding on to increase the skim thickness.

Get the appropriate shim and put it back on exhaust valve 1 and it's bucket. You can't mix them up as each one will not be the same.


All shims done and back were they came from,
Time for the Chain.
(Cams are still on the bench)

Posted Image

What I do here is cut a link off the old chain and link the new chain to the old chain. (The new chain is on the right) The cloths are covering the head from when I was cutting one of the old links with my air grinder.
With the new chain attached I turn the engine over by hand feeding the new chain and receiving the old chain, eventual the old chain is out.
(The old chain is now in the red magnetic tray)
Posted Image

While I was doing this i had the oil draining, gave the head a clean to get rid of burnt oil stains and gunk, the best I could.
Time for some new Oil, before I refit the cams I pour some oil over the buckets and the caps were the cams sit.

Posted Image

Cams back in, Chain back together, Engine timed.
Job done
Posted Image


One thing I've noticed with nearly all 16 valve engines I've worked on, is that the valve clearances are neglected, if the valve clearances are neglected, The exhaust valve clearances get tight and the intake clearances go loose. resulting in loss of power and top end acceleration. You be amazed in the difference in doing the valve clearance.
It really affects the 2.5's as to the 2.3's, but both as equal to power gains when done.

:) :)



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Michael
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Oh, I wished I lived in kildare. :lol: Ross , you make it look so easy.
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mb190e
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Excellent piece of information, perhaps we should have more of this sort of post. Perhaps a section especially for this sort of info,What do you think?
The only thing I would have done different would be to complete the job with the old oil in the engine, give it a flush out with a good quality flushing agent then change the oil, any stray bits of crap would be washed out then and the engine would be nice and clean.
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Studio-City
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Fantastic post!
How often should the valve clearances be done? Typically, how much would a garage charge for doing it?

Thanks!
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dave_irl
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mb190e
Feb 27 2007, 11:08 PM
Excellent piece of information, perhaps we should have more of this sort of post. Perhaps a section especially for this sort of info,What do you think?

We do have a section for this.. the engine section. :D

Nice handy little write up, now pinned. Thanks! :)
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Chris Martens
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Great post - but a somewhat neglected engine...

Valve clearance should be checked every 20tkm - and immediately after you get a new used car.
Adjustment has to be done only if the values are out of the tolerances.

Not every workshop is able to adjust the valve clearance at a 16V, ask if they've done it recently before you sign anything. They'll need several calibrated chims of unknown thickness, if they don't have them in stock it will last some days before the car is back on the road.

Even at the dealer in Germany they sometimes tell you that the 16V has hydraulic lifters thad don't need adjustment, they just don't know it anymore...

regards,
Christian
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Cosmo2.5-16
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Cheers lads for the comments :)

Quote:
 
but a somewhat neglected engine...


Ye not getting the oil changed regularly enough, but the the cams and gears were in very good order, only two owners on that car, and there not under the age of thirty, not abused over it's life I've say.

I have a box of assorted shims, it's grand in the sense that the one's you take out of the head i might use them another day or even that day,.

Quote:
 
The only thing I would have done different would be to complete the job with the old oil in the engine, give it a flush out with a good quality flushing agent then change the oil, any stray bits of crap would be washed out then and the engine would be nice and clean


When I was doing the job I had the car jacked at an angle towards the drain plug, it was left draining for a few hours, and when I was finished cleaning the head, I poured a litre of oil in, still no drain plug in, I let that drain then as well,
Your right though, I'll be draining that oil again now very soon.

When i was posting I made a boo boo in that i posted twice
:) :)
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Michael
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That service manual would be a scarce item, nice and cleann too! :D
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Cosmo2.5-16
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Quote:
 
MICHAEL Posted on Feb 27 2007, 11:14 PM
  That service manual would be a scarce item, nice and cleann too! 


There were a few oily paw marks on it before it was given to me.
Theres some good reading in it, I try to be carefull with it, I don't what it falling apart, can't be got in book form any more.

:) :)
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kentronix
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I'm only really here for the Kitchens

iirc there are some cheapo motorbike shims that can be used and are much cheaper and easier to get hold of. It could be rubbish the info is from before I got my 190 :)
great post and great photos, will come in very handy for many people.
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Michael
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( Quote) There were a few oily paw marks on it before it was given to me.
Theres some good reading in it, I try to be carefull with it, I don't what it falling apart, can't be got in book form any more.

Valuable now , priceless in future years. B)
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matsalleh76
Matsalleh76. RIP. Gone But Never Forgotten.
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Nice write-up.

Easy and cheap source of shims: your Peugeot dealer. They are exactly the same as the 16V shims and less than half the price. Show them a sample as I do not remember the Pug model numbers that use the shim.

bobf.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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I had 405 diesel shims stuck in my engine ;)
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Racing
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Iīd ad the same statement for the chain,cause as it wears...it indeed will make the engine lose performance.

Nice write up btw.
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erik-16v
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It's pug 205 (and probably 405) shims, or Kawasaki GPZ, Z??,.. shims.

Nice thread, well explained but shouldn't you always change the tensioner together with the chain ?
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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Yes you do need to change the tensioner :)
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mr_s
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How much are the shims from the dealer? I have a couple of different types of Kawasaki ones that I could measure and see if they are the same size (cost Ģ5+vat each from the local Kwak stealers IIRC).

Cheers, Martin
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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I know from memory that changing all of them was coming to Ģ95 plus vat and included a 10% discount.

They were thin shims too which is why i went to pegeout cos mercedes did not have the size i needed :)
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pentoman
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How long does it take just to do the clearances and how hard is it to remove the valve cover? It seems easy in my head but I can just imagine it being one of things that turns into a bit of a nightmare!
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Cosmo2.5-16
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Yes ye are right on the Peugeot shims, there the exact same, use them all the time. The shims aint to dear of the dealer but it's the hassel in getting them, and I also heard that the Kawasaki shims are the same but I never seen them so can't asy for sure.

As for the chain tensioner, you don't have to replace it every time it's out. The tensioner has to be inspected and reset tho every time its taken out. The tensioner is worked off oil pressure and it also has a rachet in it.
I'll go into more detail about the tensioner and show a few pics later.
I have a car coming out to me tonight at 7 so mightent get to do it tonight, but will do soon.


Quote:
 
cossie connoisseur Posted on Feb 28 2007, 11:53 AM
  I know from memory that changing all of them was coming to Ģ95 plus vat and included a 10% discount.

They were thin shims too which is why i went to pegeout cos mercedes did not have the size i needed


Were you off the road while waiting for the shims.

:) :)
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parker
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did you remove/ renew tensioner
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Conrad
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Therapy Needed
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Russ - valve cover is easy. Just a set of little nuts. Just remember when putting them back on to do them diagonally so as not to make the gasket leak.
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Racing
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Pento.
Setting the clearance for the average enthusiast...expect a full saturday.
Make sure to have a valve shim kit at hand.
Shim kits can be had from Peugeot,Citroen and Kawasaki.
A micrometer is essential,as is a pen and a piece of paper.

Both cams are held in place via 4pcs of M6 bolts.
You need to unbolt the SLS pump as well(3pcs M8 bolts) and lay it aside.

To adjust the valve clearance you need to get the cams out.
There is NO need to even touch the chain and gears though!!!!!

Just unbolt the cams and press them rearwards to "unhook" them from the gears after the cam bolts has been released.

Care should be taken however to make sure that the camchain gallery doesnīt get filled with bolts and what have you not :huh: :P

Btw.
If you download the service manual for the 102.983 thereīs a valve adjusting scheme at the back of it.
As you download it in PDF itīs simply a matter of letting your printer to work..and presto..you got all the help you need.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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Why do we have 2 topics on the same thing. Can we condese it into one as there is interesting info on both :)
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panzer
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Really nice clear write up! Can valve clearances be reset on a 2.0 as my manual says they can't due to being Hydraulic ? Mine seems to be down on power at the mo so was wondering if this may be the cause. any advice gratefully recieved as usual.
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Conrad
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Valve clearences are a 16v thing. 8vs have hydraulic lifters which don't need adjustment.
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hugo190e
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Service book ebay

Here's a link for that workshop manual book on ebay



nice pics ross how long did that take you
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Neil
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Conrad
Mar 2 2007, 10:30 AM
Valve clearences are a 16v thing. 8vs have hydraulic lifters which don't need adjustment.

Aaaaah!
All this time, nobody has ever put it so clearly.
I know next to nowt about engines, but that bit of info is very useful.
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190neil
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Ross,

Is that the one you picked up in the UK late one night? So is the engine basically healthy?
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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Wonder what condition the valves are in? :unsure:

Looks like it it could do with a thorough going over, good job its with someone who actually knows what and how to do it :)
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dave_irl
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cossie connoisseur
Mar 2 2007, 09:12 AM
Why do we have 2 topics on the same thing. Can we condese it into one as there is interesting info on both :)

Strange that one!

Topics now merged, but the forum puts all the posts in chronological order so some posts might seem a little disjointed (a word?) but the info is all in here nonetheless
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Chris Martens
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Mar 2 2007, 10:08 AM
You need to unbolt the SLS pump as well(3pcs M8 bolts) and lay it aside.

Jesper,

why should I unbolt the hydraulic pump?
I've never needed to do that...

I'd strongly recommend a small(!) torque wrench to tighten the cam bearing caps, they need 21Nm that's nearly nothing, so you might easily overtighten them without proper wrench.

Tighten the nuts in steps to prevent too much stress to the cam!
The cam may brake if treated with too much force!

regards,
Christian
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Racing
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Crhistian.
Reason is that by unbolting the SLS pump you can get to the M6 bolts with a 1/4" ratchet,making the job much faster as you can reach the bolts with the ratchet from "straight up front" instead of turning the 8 M6 bolts a little at a time.
If you ratchet the SLS pump off as well via a 13mm socket on a 3/8" drive...you simply save time in doing the job.

Btw.
For turning the engine over with ign turned off...
Look for a singular electrical connector at the firewall next to the brak booster.
This is the connector for the starter motor solenoid,and mercedes has been kind enough to supply us with a helping hand here...
Just unhook the connector,and connect a "starters help" switch between it and the positive side of the battery.
This way,every time you press the switch of the starters help the motor will turn over.
If you opt to take the sparkplugs out at the same time,it will turn over even more easy,and itīll get easier to control where the engine stops in its cycle-via the use of the switch.
Saves time when performing a valve adjustment on these engine as well.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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ive done about 12k now since the rebuild so time for a clearence check i recon B)

Original rebuild resulted in car being off the road for 5 weeks to answer cosmos question..... not a nice experience and means aditional things can go wrong like relay faliure and brake seziure which is common
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pentoman
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Shims were Ģ3.43 each to me, but working at a garage that's the trade price..... I needed 8. Some in stock, some came from Germany but only took 3 days or so. I am keeping the ones I removed for the future!
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JasonQ
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Does anyone know the clearences for a 2.5-16?
Thanks
Jason
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Will
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Hi Jason,

They're marked up on a sticker under the bonnet on the slam panel, above the N/S headlamp.

If you can't find them I'll dig them up when I'm back.

Will
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JasonQ
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Hi,
Will have a look tomorrow, should be able to find them, going to check mine this weekend.

Thanks
Jason
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JasonQ
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While ive got the rocker off is there any way to tell what condition the timing chain & tensioner is in?
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JasonQ
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Checked my clearnces today.

3 sets of exhaust clearences are good (within tolerences)

1 exhaust set 0.02mm below min tolerence


3 sets of inlet clearences are good (within tolerences)

1 inlet set out (cam1 0.05 below min tolerence cam2 0.04 below tolerence)


Should i get these re shimmed? If so is it get done asap or can i do it when i get chance (next few weeks)

Thanks

Jason


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