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| Major Rust Problems; Rust Everwhere | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Wed May 16, 2007 10:09 pm (7,019 Views) | |
| GenerationObese | Wed May 16, 2007 10:09 pm Post #1 |
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Just started this post to see if anyone can give me advice on rescueing a potential terrible buy. When i got this car up on a lift to fit a tyre i was shocked with the rust. I am going to get the under carriage sand blasted next week and get the under carriage treated if there is any car left. Is there potential problems with sand blasting. I hope i have not bought a real lemon because mechanically it is running real well. Any advice appreciated I have a few images from just holding a camera under the wheel arches i willtake more when i get it up on a lift again.Thanks P |
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| frank133 | Wed May 16, 2007 10:33 pm Post #2 |
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to be honest,I wouldnt sandblast under the car,its going to get in places were you dont want it, just wire brush most of it,you will have to post a few photos ,it might not be as bad as you think.these 190 do have a bit of rust,but most of it is a fairly easy fix |
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| GenerationObese | Wed May 16, 2007 10:43 pm Post #3 |
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[/IMG]Have my photos put on photbucket but i can't seem to get them to work on this website. Do i share them on my space as photobucket says or do i generate a html code and try and paste it. p |
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| JensonGB | Wed May 16, 2007 10:57 pm Post #4 |
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I Will Find One That I Keep!
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Hi mate Its all explained here: Posting Photos |
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| GenerationObese | Wed May 16, 2007 11:06 pm Post #5 |
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| frank133 | Wed May 16, 2007 11:14 pm Post #6 |
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Hi what I do is resize the photo on potobucket edit,then copy the url ,when posting on the forum go to img and paste the url,It works for me any thing more complicated and I am lost :ph43r: |
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| JensonGB | Wed May 16, 2007 11:17 pm Post #7 |
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I Will Find One That I Keep!
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![]() Hi mate nearly there the [url=shouldn't be there and it needed [/IMG] at the end. In photobucket if you lrft click on the last box under your pic which says IMG Code it automatically copies the code so you can post it here EDIT sorted before i could answer
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| shrekky | Wed May 16, 2007 11:21 pm Post #8 |
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i wouldnt sand blast either,as frank said just wire brush it
by the looks of them photos,the rust is around the jacking points on the floor ,which is a weak point on these cars.......i've had to do work on all 4 jacking points on my car..........it isnt the end of the world
especially if you have a friend that can weld.......btw where abouts are you ? maybe somone on here can help you
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| frank133 | Thu May 17, 2007 12:12 am Post #9 |
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Ye I think your right I have done both rear jacking points,but it was only the outer skin just welded a patch on it. I think another bad rust trap is under the headlights.bottom of the wing behind the bumper,swopped a wing last week and had to make new side bumper bracket and lower wing bracket,its just a question of keeping on top of things its handy having a mig tho :ph43r: |
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| kentronix | Thu May 17, 2007 12:25 am Post #10 |
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I agree it does indeed look nasty but once the rust is cleaned off, as long as a plate can be welded over it may not be that bad. I am absolutely not an expert on rust or welding but these areas are quite common on 190s, if your near someone who can have a look you may find its not as bad as it seems. Although welding seems a fine art (and I am not in anyway belittling welders), but its basically a case of removing, treating and welding metal back over the area. Listen to the experts, and see what they say but 'dont panic' and make rash decisions
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| merc190uk | Thu May 17, 2007 7:00 pm Post #11 |
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burger your cars just rustd in the usual places these cars love to rust, thats all. but the floor ones will need to be welded for the mot but you will find once you grind it back that it won't have traveled to far unlike a ford would have :lol: is it rusty around the back window ? and look under the water bottle and the top of the front suspension struts under the wiring separator block. |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Thu May 17, 2007 7:18 pm Post #12 |
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Thats not bad, i've seen far worse. Have you removed the rear seat bottom bench, if you remove that you will see the holes and then you can plate the inside and outside. The rust can be grinded back and weld a plate on. Then re underseal the area. Mine has had little work at the jacking point and alittle in the boot well due to the vents letting water in, it was left to collect in the well and rust a small hole, so i grinded all the old rust away plated and welded then re undersealed inside and outside also fixing the leak. Ever since then i've had no problems. I can bet that most people have had work done on there cars except the minters etc. It is not uncommon for this to happen. |
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| julian | Thu May 17, 2007 7:19 pm Post #13 |
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I would also take out all the boot linings and check that area out, especially around the inner rear wheel arches. Give the car a good going over before you undertake repairing the jacking points, you could end up throwing good money after bad. Battery tray area also, remove battery and tray, and check rust hasn't transgressed to the bulkhead area. |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Thu May 17, 2007 7:25 pm Post #14 |
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Oh yeah that reminds me, on the weekend im going to restore my battery tray as there is lots surface rust. So on the weekend i will get the grinder out remove all the old rust and repaint the area, ill do a little before and after to show the difference. As for what Julian said yes remove all the plastic inner pieces in the boot, check the the spare wheel area and the wells, also check the front inner wings. |
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| GenerationObese | Thu May 17, 2007 9:47 pm Post #15 |
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I have the car in ireland now so have to see if i can get a good cheap local bodyshop or welder to look at it. Unfortunatly there is rust on both axles on front rod end, on suspension rods and springs. It also has a leak in the booth. Still not going to give up on it but was hoping i could sand blast the main areas. Only comfort i have is that it is running well. I will also have to replace the bushings as they are bulging at the joint. Just in case has anyone sand blasted the underbody of their cars? I will try and show more pictures in a few days. P. |
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| stwat | Thu May 17, 2007 10:34 pm Post #16 |
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I would recomend that you DONT sandblast the underbody!!! The sand or beads will get into everything!! Especialy things like bushes, bearings and electrical parts and will kill them off pretty quickly. Stu |
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| GenerationObese | Thu May 17, 2007 10:46 pm Post #17 |
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Fair enough i will see how i get on. I will take out the batterty,seats tomorrow and take photos of inside the booth and post them. Cheers for all the advice lads, P. |
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| GenerationObese | Fri May 18, 2007 6:57 pm Post #18 |
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i have taken out the seats and boot lining and parcel shelf. I found plenty of rust at the rear window. The foam protecting the vacuum pump was soaking. and rust was under it. I then looked under both front doors and the bottoms are about to fall out of them. I can get two old doors for about 100 pound and then have to paint them. Has any tried streaming a car would it help remove rust instead of sand blasting which i am now not goign to do. The pictures tell all ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Fri May 18, 2007 6:59 pm Post #19 |
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I would get hold of a grinder, grind all the rust away and add a rust preventive layer and then repaint over the top so you have a new boot well, as for the rest do the same. It looks bad but once its all grinded away it will be okay, under the seats looks like surface rust and could get away with remove all the rust and repainting. Where is the rust in the picture next to the wheel well in the boot? |
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| Neil | Fri May 18, 2007 7:03 pm Post #20 |
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This statement alone would make me scrap this car. I think you've bought a money/rust pit Unless you can get doors for about 50% of that price and have connections in the motor paint trade, this car will end up being a labour of love that won't give back... |
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| GenerationObese | Fri May 18, 2007 7:03 pm Post #21 |
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| GenerationObese | Fri May 18, 2007 7:07 pm Post #22 |
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that the bottom of the drivers door. its nearly all gone. the bootom of the door that is. |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Fri May 18, 2007 7:08 pm Post #23 |
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I wouldnt give up on it, i know it will be cheaper just to buy another 190 but all 190s need work at the jacking points and around the rear screens etc. If you did want to give up i would just weld the jacking points and try and tidy it up alittle. Then put it back together and sell on hopefully with no one knowing what lies in the car. :ph43r: But really i wouldnt give up, by the time its all grinded back it will not look to bad. |
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| Neil | Fri May 18, 2007 7:37 pm Post #24 |
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I admire your confidence Lewis, but unless you're handy with a spray gun the repairs on a car like that will far exceed the car's value in no time at all. Not all 190s 'need work' - there are likely at least a hundred owners on this forum alone with rust-free 190s. Bodywork costs money for a reason and imo doing a job half-arsed is worse than not doing it at all. If you try and patch up rust and then waste money with a shoddy DIY topcoat, it will bite you in the ass come sale-time, i guarantee it. My car's recent 'brush with death' has enlightened me to the infinite amounts of money that can be spent on body & paintwork. Lewis, you have a much rare car than many of us, and a lot more time to spend on it
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| julian | Fri May 18, 2007 7:58 pm Post #25 |
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I have to agree with Evo on this, you're opening a big can of worms, you'll be chasing and trying to solve rust problems for a long time, and it's going to cost a packet in the long run. When a car reaches the amount of rust as on your's it's time to give up. If it was some rare classic, then that's a dirrerent story, but you'll never get any kind of return if you pursue with this one. You have to bear in mind that corrosion you already have is likely to be dominant on or in most body panel parts and chassis on the car. It looks like this car has suffered severe interior moisture at some time. If you pursue with it though and bring it back to a decent life you'll have my full and total respect
Please don't think I'm being over negative, but I have worked in the car trade, you're best off breaking the car and the money you get for spares try to find a fairly rust free 190, or buy a 190 rust free cheap with knackered engine and swap it. |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Fri May 18, 2007 8:04 pm Post #26 |
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Evo and Julian you are right, i just like saving cars, i know its not a classic but i cant bare it when i see a car going to waste. I know it will be best to break the car or re shell but i really like to save a car. |
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| Rich27 | Fri May 18, 2007 8:09 pm Post #27 |
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I would Agree with Julian and Evo. The time and mone you will end up spending on it will far exceed its value. In this situation I would be on the look out for another one and break the rusty one and transfer/sell any spare parts. ![]() Just seeing somthing like this would have me walking away, but now you know what to look for body wise on your next one. (they are addictive) Whats its engine/interior like? |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Fri May 18, 2007 8:09 pm Post #28 |
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The car does not belong to me. My car is rust free |
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| julian | Fri May 18, 2007 8:46 pm Post #29 |
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Well it's a modern classic and your sentiments on saving the car commendable and shared, but sometimes you have to draw the line somewhere otherwise all us 190 owners would be bankrupt :lol:
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| Rich27 | Fri May 18, 2007 9:02 pm Post #30 |
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I remember when I had to strip down my first XR2 as it failed the MOT on Corrosion (lots of) which didnt surprise me, shame as the little ford was FAST and stuck to the road like snot to a pillowcase. The parts were put to good use in a Beige MK1 fiesta shell, (1.8i engine, Box, wheels, Rollcage etc etc) |
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| julian | Fri May 18, 2007 9:10 pm Post #31 |
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the little ford was FAST and stuck to the road like snot to a pillowcase. :lol: :lol: :lol: |
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| stwat | Fri May 18, 2007 11:10 pm Post #32 |
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Looking at those pics
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Unless you can do the work yourself then it will cost a mini fortune to get a body shop to sort it out. Id bail out and find a better example TBH mate. Stu |
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| kentronix | Sat May 19, 2007 1:59 am Post #33 |
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well, you have a few opinions expressed
Do you know any welders, or are you local to anyone on the forum who can help ?
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| GenerationObese | Sat May 19, 2007 12:06 pm Post #34 |
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There is a merc breakers near me here in ireland but i can get a standard 190e here for anything from a 1986 for 300 euro to a 1990 for 1300 euro. Can parts and engine be tranfered over from one to the other without any modifications. If they could it may be my best hope. The engine in this rust bucket is going well and the leather interior is in good nick so i could salvage someting out of this. But boy does my heart drop the more rust i see. Can a standard manual gear box work with the 2.3 engine or would i then have to try and get the dog leg gearbox too? P. |
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| Neil | Sat May 19, 2007 1:09 pm Post #35 |
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The 2.3-16 engine is only compatible with the DogLeg Getrag or Auto box iirc. What model is the 190 you currently own? Is it a 16v? If you already have a 2.3-16 engine, then surely you have a gearbox already too? I'm confused :wacko: |
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| GenerationObese | Sat May 19, 2007 1:30 pm Post #36 |
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sorry , ya have a automatic but if i do go down the line of swapping the engine over into another 190e body i would go as far as putting in a dogleg getrag gear box if i can source one over here. The way i look at it i see this car as keeps. So there is no time limit on it but i will defiinitly not blow a fortune on it. So if i can source a standard 190e body rust free here i think i would be better takin that option like suggested. The model i have is a 1986 2.3 16 v. automatic. What year of car would i be restricted to or would the engine swap over to a newer year that what i have. P |
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| GenerationObese | Mon May 21, 2007 8:09 pm Post #37 |
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have one of the front wings off now and the front bumper. The wing needs to be replaced and i will need to have replacement brackets welded on to fit another wing as the existing brackets are rotten away as can be seen in the pictures. With the cadding removed you can see how the drivers door is. Is there a easy way to remove the body moulding on the doors as i broke clips getting it off? P. ![]() ![]() ![]()
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| julian | Mon May 21, 2007 8:35 pm Post #38 |
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All I can say Is rather you then me, I really admire your persistance with it, but when a 3mm thick bracket is corroded right through I would have serious concernes with regard to the rest of the car, especially bearing in mind the rust you've already found. What you need to bear in mind, is that where your jacking point areas have corroded and holed, has allowed air to enter the chassis box cavities, this also means that moisture will be entering these caveties also and condensating, there's no underseal inside cavities as they're not normally exposed to air or moisture so it is likely that cavities on this car are rotting from the inside out. This would apply to any cavity on the car which that has suffered holes due to rust. Even if you manage to tackle all the rust areas you can see, you will have as many patches that you can't see at the moment, and will probably start appearing just as you finish tackling the ones you can. So basically double the amount of work you think the car needs at the moment, then add some. Get a decent shell |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Mon May 21, 2007 8:49 pm Post #39 |
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The wheels remind of a cossie ive seen, by any chance is it the one of piston heads with 203,000 miles and the auto box? For sale at £2,000 |
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| GenerationObese | Mon May 21, 2007 9:05 pm Post #40 |
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no it was on ebay its on this website located in hampshire. Check the previous threads. All i can do it strip as much as i can take more photos and put them up on this thread. I won't spend any money on repairs until i can see the full horrors. Then i will have to see sense. So far it definitly two front doors, two front wings. Probadly too much already. |
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by the looks of them photos,the rust is around the jacking points on the floor ,which is a weak point on these cars.......i've had to do work on all 4 jacking points on my car..........it isnt the end of the world




















, i think that car is a little to far gone



3:49 PM Jul 11