| Welcome to Mercedes-190.co.uk We are the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and fans of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome. This free UK based forum was started back in November 2005 to serve the Mercedes 190 W201 community and now has over 9000 members from all around the world and 600,000 + posts. The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around. We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs. Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up. Join our forum at mercedes-190.co.uk! If you're already a member please log in to your account: **New members signing up** please check your junk mail for the email authorization email otherwise we cannot verify your new account. I have noticed a lot of unauthorized accounts in the system. Regards Admin |
| Turbo Questions Guys-in Here | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:43 pm (29,808 Views) | |
| Racing | Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:51 pm Post #241 |
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Btw...at 6900rpms...so..no..i´m not BS you..it IS a streeter. One of europes fastest...none the less.. Maximum torq was 2015Nm-enough to pull a frieght train. Who said turbos don´t deliver? :lol: |
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| Conrad | Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:05 pm Post #242 |
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Therapy Needed
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That is wrong on so many levels. Yet so very, very right. Why can't they make cars like that from the factory?
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| Mohammad | Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:06 pm Post #243 |
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weneakhborz
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what car is that you say? |
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| dennisbots | Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:08 pm Post #244 |
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Part of things
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http://www.christellracing.se/?p=4 That thing is soo bad ass video's are also on youtube |
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| Racing | Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:22 pm Post #245 |
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Back on track boys... As good as it gets,and indeed the real deal Let me put it this way...they don´t carry excess weight around...i can tell you that much.. |
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| Mohammad | Sat Dec 15, 2007 10:47 am Post #246 |
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weneakhborz
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yummy.any new updates ? |
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| Racing | Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:02 am Post #247 |
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Nah.Nothing major. Sought out the lose end of the brake conversion,so they´re basicaly ready to install now. However,at the moment,i´m dismantling the old turbo POS.. Will keep engine,gearbox,rear asf...rest goes for the scrapper. |
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| Racing | Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:44 pm Post #248 |
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Well..whatta ya know...Delrin swaybar bushings. ...and valve springs that hopefully will take us the other side of 10 000 rpms.. |
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| RobertE | Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:09 pm Post #249 |
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Serial victim...
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The valve springs look interesting, Jesper; what are they made from? |
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| Racing | Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:16 am Post #250 |
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It´s swedish spring steel. Back in the old days it would have been called SIS2090(Swedish industrial standard) Vs stock 2.3. |
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| dave_irl | Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:37 am Post #251 |
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Defector
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Nice springs! I got new uprated ones in my package from TEP also, they managed to find some that would fit. Same height and single coil but stronger and of unknown make.. Should be plenty for my n/a screamer! Funny though, he send me 16 not 8 so if anyone else is tuning a crazy 8-M102, I have some spare tough springs!Jesper is there an easy way to measure the strength of a spring?? I'd like to compare them properly.. |
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| hal9000 | Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:27 pm Post #252 |
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Part of things
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If you have the correct tools, measuring the spring strength is pretty easy. (Correct me if I goof something up here Jesper....) There's a special pressure gauge which you put into a small press with your spring. You then compress the spring a known amount (IE to the measured seated height) and read the pressure exerted on the gauge. If you have a small manual press, then all you need is the gauge (available from many good parts suppliers) a set of spring retainers or custom made adapters like the ones in Jesper's photo, and a tool to accurately measure the compressed height of the spring. Assuming that your springs are consistent in their strength, you want to measure the installed height at each valve, and use shims under the springs to keep the installed height (and the seat pressure) even from cylinder to cylinder. |
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| Racing | Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:13 pm Post #253 |
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Scott basicaly told the story i´d say... |
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| dennisbots | Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:21 pm Post #254 |
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Hey Jesper I was thinking about the injectors of a 16v turbo car. At what point does one need to swap the 1 injector a cylinder into 2 injectors a cylinder? And what ar the things to look after when doing that like the placing, angle, the cc's or mapping? Greetings Dennis |
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| Racing | Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:21 pm Post #255 |
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Dennis. It´s quite obvious you´re into the loop. When it comes to injector size,and the characteristics that follow,i´m sorry to say that there really is no clear cut answer. Reason being that idle/light load qualitys that are livable to one guy is something the next will call unbearable. In general tho going towards 6-700ccs@3bars should be considered safe,and what´s more is that after that territory it kind of turns ugly as far as high ohm injectors anyway.("mid" range Ohm;ed ones asf asf) I´ve at least been running the Siemens 630cc ones at 5.5 bars for the better part of 2yrs before just recently hoisting the engine out of the old chassis-and that with no real ills. On the other hand the development of injector character is something config/software based within any reasonable SA,and as such it to an extent IS a trial and error process. Thing is the part with idle/light load,and it is all to common to se cars that´ll "hunt" in idle when equipped with SAs.God knows that i´ve combated it on more than one occasion,and what´s more is that it takes very little in the terms of being "off the narrow" before that idle hunting asf hits like a like a bad cold... ..and when it does,as anything mechanical is fallable,it´ll take some investigating as to why to set it straight again. A very very common problem with setups before the "little things" are all sorted out. Now.. Then the average Joe might think along the lines that injector staging is the way to go. Noo...it really isn´t,cause if it can turn out hard to keep 1 injector per cylinder in check...try mating two to work in harmony...takes a little while to get them to do that..coupled with a serious pack of know how. Now..if we use commonly available formulas we can easily rerate the 630s to the flow they´ll support at 5.5 bars,which´ll turn out to something like 800cc+(810 or something along those lines) How much power will that translate to? Well..not to be avoiding the Q in any way,but that is extremely dependant on stuff like which lambda you feel safe with for a given engine at WFO. Some...like the Volvo "red blocks" wants lambdas along the lines of .76-,78 to produce power under heavy doses of boost,while the merc cossie will survive and live happily ever after on .86 all day long... IOW,it is safe to assume that a set of Siemens 630 with a little raised system pressure will suffice the other side of the 500hp mark at least-which is about where the stock fuel supply systems on these cars run out anyway. For our new setup we WILL run staged. Main reason being to keep SOME level of sanity as far as driving characteristics. Our idea is to run the "base" engine on a set of Bosch/Volvo "R" series injectors(approx 360@3),and that as well on a bit raised system pressure which in turn will suffice to approx 330hp @WFO. Now..we will start to smoothly ramp up a set of 1000cc ones at approx 70%DC of the "base" ones...and have them fully into the equation at approx 80% to 85%DC.. Same system pressure,which in effect means that we´ll end of of a total fuel supply of approx 1750ccs per cyl. You do the math Dennis Placing. There´s no real telling what´s "best" if performance is the goal(as in outright power). In essence,to keep polluntant levels asf in check tho and to have at least a reasonable power aim it could also always be safe to reuse the OEM position. I presume you´re after the idea of putting the injectors ahead of the butterfly-up into the trumpet in the plenum chamber.? That will simply to the letter KILL any and all chances of decent idle as well as being able to adhere to pollutant demands of any sorts. Stunts like that...are for race engines,and the primary idea of it is to let the incoming air cool a bit as the cold fuel is injected into the airstream as well as leaving the incoming air a fair chance to keep the emulsion tight at WFO. However..what you win up top...you certainly lose down low..and the mere FACT is that even the most hardcore race idiot spends most of his driving BELOW 5000rpms in his cossie...making stunt like that quite obvious as to what they´re intended to cater to. Angle. The current crop of injectors are almost all "dual spray" patterned. Point being that almost any available engine these days is 4V pent roof anyways...and as such they will divide somewhere down the intake tract.. What´s more,that part is more or less out of bounds and control for us guys as it´s set by the factory that makes the injectors in the first place. In short...make your choices and place you bets kind of... Bosch as well as Siemens makes for good products tho...rest assured. |
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| Racing | Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:25 pm Post #256 |
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Btw. Something often overlooked as turbo people want to push the limits is the fuel supply. For the new setup of ours we will be running dial 044 Bosch pumps on a 1/2 feeder line from the pumps,and what´s more the wiring for the pumps will be changed for heavier gauge. last bit to make sure any voltage drop is held to a minimum. That setup should to our calulations suffice the other side of 1000hp in the merc. |
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| dennisbots | Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:04 pm Post #257 |
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Part of things
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Thanks to clear this up for me. Im going to keep it simple and go for the 1 injector a cylinder. I think the mapping is hard enough as it is. Next thing for me to sort out is the exhaust manifold. This thing is going to be a time assuming brain cracker. I have a 2 options in mind. First option is to use the oem header and adjust it a little like your old setup. Try to make it split-pulse if possible. But did you still get to the bolts of the manifold as the engine is in the car? The 50mm piping of my 2.5 should be not to bad if im correct. Biggest draw back as i see it is the placing of the air filter because you leave yourself with a small space to place it. Second is to make a new one. But then i run into lots of problems like first of all design, split pulse, the length and the equal length of the runners (no idea how you calculate or measure it), still reaching the bolts etc etc So i think i first play with the oem header. If that's not going to work and i adjusted it with the biggest hammer i have. chainsaw.gif Then im going to start my second option. Im open to suggestions btw. right now im going to get the engine ready to rip out of the chassis |
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| Racing | Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:52 pm Post #258 |
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Things progress Dennis. They always do. If i were to make another install today i´d still use the OEM pipe-if setup is to cater up til 600hp.(IOW typical customer install) However,today i´d opt to hoist the engine out of the car and set the system up by moving the alternator to where the AC compressor is OEM(underneath the power steering pump) and toss the AC compressor out of there if fitted. True performance cars don´t carry ACs anyways... By doing so you´d clear up a LOT of space that can be used better than with my earlier designs. What´s more,it becomes easy to "hang" the turbocharger from the OEM fittings in the block for the alternator,and thereby releaving the hedder from the stress of the weight from the turbo. Yes.It is a lot more work. However...i´ve given it some thought since my current buildup has taken form....and...it IMO is a solution that carries merit. That is NOT to say that the "old" setup is bad!! Not in any way,just..seing stuff like you mention with airfilter asf...brings the task as a whole a little easier-albeit the moving of the alternator,new belt and what more it brings. Further,it will not in any appreciable way alter performance or similar,if anything you´ll have another prob on your hands as the primarys will grow longer than needed IMO,just that building it the "easy" way from looks is harder than just moving the alternator over and be done with it-leaving you with all the space you´ll ever need. Pulse split vs single entry...well..again...what you´ll gain at one end is what you´ll lose at the other,and i for one at least don´t see the reason for split until you start running rather large turbos.(Like my current buildup) Ie;the character of the 16V is such that nothing really happens anyways until 4 thou..and there´s no point in making it do so either as it brings a plethora of other issues/problems that need to be solved in such a case.(Cyl pressures that´ll skyrocket and what have you) Further,if you opt to run "midrange" static compression the car will be driveable as is anyways until boost hits. Turbine ARs can always be played around with cheap enough..that´s not really an issue.(Expect a turbine housing-which is what you swap to reach upon a compromise of your liking-to run along the lines of 150 euros or so-depending on make and manufacturer.Further,with access to a lathe you can easily toss and turn turbine housing between makes to your hearts content.Something we do on a regular basis.Last one i did was for another TCd 16V,a 65mm inducer KKK K27 that got a Garret turbine housing after 30 mins or so in the lathe.Reason being that the garret housing was physicaly smaller to the size on the outside.Car is up and running btw,and runs at approx 1.6 bars and running like a bat out of hell...Major prob for the owner,Dennis,at the moment is that he´s running out of fuel and breaking drivetrain parts like they´re going out of style.Also runs VEMS btw) |
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| Racing | Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:17 pm Post #259 |
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Dennis. When building the hedder,as you don´t really have any previous experience in doing so,add a pressure fitting of some sorts. Reason being that you´ll be able to MAP/log exhaust backpressure if you via some brake tubing connect that via a hose to an external map sensor. Don´t get me wrong...it is WAY over the top for a 1bar+ setup...but my experience is that we always want more down the line...and when you start to up the boost...exhaust back pressure most certainly comes into the equation. Hence..my reasoning when it comes to pulse splits asf as well,as a PS WILL add to exhaust back pressure as revs and load goes up. In short this is a balance that needs to be investigated,and simply expect to be forced to play around with it a little. Even i go off target on that from time to time as EBP is dependant of so many variables. But...as stated...turbine housings are cheap,and within reason,no matter the housing the engine will still WORK.With a large AR just a little later than expected. ARs,exducers asf IS hard to recieve upon even for us seasoned guys on occasion as the variables involved are so many,and therefore playing around with this stuff is to be expected. Balance tho...cause in that case as well...what you gain at one end is what you´ll lose at the other and i for one at least ALWAYS find it a good idea to err on the large side as it´s WAY more safe to creep up on a final solution from the "large" side than the other way around as to SMALL a turbine housing can wreck havoc to an engine in seconds.(Even split seconds) That in turn very dependant of that exhaust back pressure sets the parameters for the amount of ignition advance that can be run-and as such the amount of power the engine will put out for a given amount of boost. Word of advice for the novice like you at this state is to be prepared to "grow" with the install and be respectful of that modding ANY car is an ever ongoing process.Trust me on that Dennis...cause LOTS of people believe-or are of the notion- that "when this is done i´m done with it".Don´t fool yourself. Ergo...when you start out with ANY TC install...do so by playing it safe. You can always sneak up on stuff...as long as you do it from the correct end. Further,seing the above reasoning be aware that turbo engines are EXTREMELY ignition timing sensitive. When closing up on the AFRs to be run and the amount of ign advance the engine is asking for you WILL see power skyrocket.(Especially so from alterations to ign advance) A mere 2 degrees of timing can result in a 50-70 hp gain-and this is commonplace with the cossie due to the inherent character of the engine. (No...that´s NOT a misprint) We´ve seen it more than once to be hunble about it. Therefore it is also commonplace that when you program a turbo engine as far as ign advance expect ign advance to continue to go up as the maximum torq has been passed from a rev point of view. Doing so is what brings that "snappy" character to a turbo engine-no matter the amount of boost really. For a 52-60mm inducer expect power to come into the 350+ region around 0.7-0.9 bars when these parameters are figured out and you start going balls to the wall for that given setup with the cossie engine,but as the saying goes....tread gently...carry a BIG gun.. Ie.Learn to crawl before you can walk and what that means is that it is IMPERATIVE that you start out by making the install work BEFORE YOU EVEN THINK ABOUT BRINGING THE LAPTOP TO MAKE THE ENGINE PERFORM ON A DYNO. As the install is done...fire her up and make sure the parameters are within reason...run like that for a while and EXPECT to spend some time with it. It´s ALL about playing around...ALL of it.. Then...with that done...THAT is when you start "leaning" on the install to make it perform. If you rush towards the finish line...you´ll just make the "others" company. Ie;end up with an engine that´s got parts where they´re not supposed to be :lol: |
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| Conrad | Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:45 pm Post #260 |
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Therapy Needed
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I thought you might appreciate this one, Jesper. http://www.retrocarclub.co.uk/forums/index...wtopic=7396&hl=
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| philhoward | Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:51 pm Post #261 |
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Part of things
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I think the technical term is "mullered"... |
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| Racing | Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:10 pm Post #262 |
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What´s worse conrad,i´m sorry to say,is that it´s all to common. |
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| dennisbots | Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:21 pm Post #263 |
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Part of things
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BTW You suggest of making the exhaust header single entry and the turbine housing Pulse split? (twin scroll or whatever its called) Or do i need a turbine housing with a single entry to if i go the route of single entry? Been looking for that answer for a while but i cant find it. Im going to take a look for replacing the alternator. Should be pretty easy after some measuring and lining up. And the AC is the first thing i trow away when i get a car. If it don't at driveability or power i don't need it. As far as the "grow" and its ''done'' part. Yea wel i now myself be now and by the time im done im on the graveyard. In the mean time i have the urgent need for more more more. (human i think) But the hole setup will start up slow if everything is in place. If it's all done it is a little to expensive for me to blow it up in the first mappings. |
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| Racing | Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:25 pm Post #264 |
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Yeah. With any sane level turbo i suggest using single entry for the cossie engine.(Up to approx 60mm compressor inducer) No..you do NOT need a single entry turbine housing for that..she´ll simply run both ways,so pick up a turbo that you believe´ll fit no matter if the turbine housing is single or dual entry. Main issue here is that you get a TURBINE(not housing) that is approx on par with what you pick for power as inducer.Ie;if you pick a huffer up of 55mm inducer,make sure the turbine EXDUCER is approx 55-60mm.(Turbines smallest diameter) Differ this from the discussion of turbine HOUSING A/R asf. Tubine DIAMETER will tell how much the turbo will cope...while turbine HOUSING will tell when we get spooled. Further..like i touched on previously,turbine housings are fairly cheap all things considered. The thing here is NOT mainly flow(from this respect ONLY),but pressure,and pressure will be equalized by any and all openings in the hedder. The LACK of opening is also what will/might become a hinderance as flow and power goes up. That is not a question of if,but when. Use of twin entry,and the benefits thereof,was something that was really started by the boys up north but then have in mind that they used LESSER flowing engines(less gass mass to get the huffer going in a "natural" way.Like mundane Volvo engines and what have you),and what´s more turbos the size of trucks.. All of a sudden...10yrs later,people in general over the net seems to believe you can´t get oops going without it being twin entry-which as i state is DEAD WRONG. You always always always regard the base motor and its NA power output as well as flow CAPACITY FIRST. Ie;what will the turbo work from and to? Up here we still see idiots that try and impliment T25 and small T3 huffers like newer garrets and early Mitsu TD04s on the cossie...and the net result is that they all tolerate like 10-14deg of timing under full boost(1,5 bars and up,where most of the boost is turned into heat anyways...morons..) due to exhaust back pressure. Then the morons go on by stating that they didn´t want more power out of the engine...yeah...reeeeiiiiiight... It´ll not only hinder the engine performance wise with those timing numbers,but more to the point make it EXTREMELY unefficient. ANY engine out there...NO ONE of them are designed to run with EBP that´ll make you end up with timing figures of that nature. Their reasoning being that they get boost at 2000rpms.. Honestly. When was the last time you shifted anywhere NEAR those revs lately with a cossie? If low end grunt is what you want(in contrast to go fast)...go get a chevy bigblockcar,cause they got it from the basement up. To recap...ALWAYS err on the big side when it comes to turbine housings. EVERY DAMN TIME. Reason being that it´s dirt easy to go smaller(it´s just a number of bolts)-with an intact engine-than the other way around,and by staying single(one way or another) you most certainly will cope with EBP at WOT and full revs better than with a twin setup. I´d say that 5-600hp is within reach without to much effort by the use of the OEM piping as a baseline. Definetly so for the bigger 2.5 piping. |
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| Racing | Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:31 pm Post #265 |
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Dennis. I might come across as having a hardon. That isn´t the general idea tho. What i´m trying to tell here is that the main reason for keeping EBP down as best as you can is engine efficieny as well as power. Turbo engines are extremely timing sensitive when it comes to both as i´ve touched on earlier,and the mere fact is that if you run EBPs you don´t have to for a given amount of boost you´re to the letter giving both power and function away. Trust me on this. The day you hit the dyno...ánd you alter timing under boost you´ll appreciate what i´m saying here. There you also have the main reason why a given turbo setup can more or less skyrocket in power all of a sudden when at the dyno. But...as i wrote above...always always always start out safe. Better safe than sorry as you write. |
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| dennisbots | Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:44 pm Post #266 |
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Part of things
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all clear here BTW i got the books FOUR stroke performance tuning and the FORGED induction performance from A. GRAHAM BELL in tha house. Should of ordered them way early-er. Just started to pick up some topics from the book and it is clear and no BS explained. |
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| Racing | Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:21 pm Post #267 |
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Yeah. Books by AGB are well written and to the point. When it comes to anything written on the subject of boost tho. Be aware that progress is still made by the day. Ie;given "rules" soon becomes extinct... What held true 5 yrs ago is pure BS today. Base holds tho as it is a matter of physics. |
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| Conrad | Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:24 pm Post #268 |
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Therapy Needed
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Must resists... telephone jokes... Bell housing... I'm going to explode. |
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| Racing | Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:59 pm Post #269 |
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Just let it out...you know you want to... :lol: |
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| dennisbots | Wed Jan 2, 2008 3:40 pm Post #270 |
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Part of things
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Btw jesper since you are building a race car that is street legal. Do you ad water injection? And since you have connections with Thorsen maybe the (electric) camshaft adjusters like the dtm cars had? Don't now the price of it but seeing its dtm it is not very cheap i think. O yea i'm looking into some grinding parts for porting/grinding the 16v head. What tools do you use or witch grind bits do you need for that. On the scooter engines i built for some people i always use the simple/cheap stuff but seeing the 16v is a lot more work i think i need some good drill bits. (found something) http://www.sa-motorsports.com/cat/p5.aspx Ore should i sent my head to Sweden for a proff porting job?? |
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| sham | Thu Jan 10, 2008 4:32 am Post #271 |
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Part of things
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racing quick question was the c32 amg brake disc was it a straight bolt on or did you have to change your hub and the knuckle or any think like that? also do you have the part number for it thanks |
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| dennisbots | Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:30 pm Post #272 |
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Part of things
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if you read the previous page it's explained |
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| zoomer46 | Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:53 pm Post #273 |
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More than part of things
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racing, got some question,quite alot really... i have 2.5-16 with t4 garret,i remember on the rs500 it was good for over 500bhp,but is it a turbo that works responds well with modern electronics,or would i better off with with something more modern like a gt35? i am looking to get 500 bhp from this engine eventually, currently have standard compression and kjet injection still,approx 250ish bhp on 7 ibs boost, i want to junk the kjet and inlet and have throttle bodies set-up like this,these are 45mm,are they big enough to get the power i want? ![]() have you any knowledge or experience with the dbilis tb's? only other setup i know is janvey tb's, as for handling the new tb's which management system can you recomend? i want to junk the oe ecu and the mosselman piggyback as i'm sure its a flawed solution to the fueling, i have a lambda probe around 6'' from the turbo cold this be too close,a tuner told me it can give in-accurate readings there? cylinder head, do you run standard cams? was thinking of getting mine re-profiled to around 270deg duration, also valves,do you run standard size? if not how much bigger are they? on the inlet i noticed that each inlet valve has its own port,would it be structurely unsafe to remove the separation ? and is there much potential in doing this? main block, is the crank forged ?and do you think as standard it is good enough to take the strain of big power? conrods,i'm guessing that these will surely have to be changed when the power is over 350bhp,do you know a good supplier of these for the 2.5-16 engine? and not forgetting the pistons,the only aftermarket piston people i know is mahle,but do they have already a low compression piston for this engine,? or who would? same goes for the headgasket,as i know the oe is no good for big turbo power. exhaust, i get conflicting information about the bore size needed for big power,i know back pressure is not such an issue as on n/a engines , but what would be a ideal bore size,i reckon 3-3.5''? diff, do you run a standard 2.3-16 lsd diff, i know you rid of the asd system but is your diff standard? or do you have uprated internals? if you could help with any of these, i will in-debted to you
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| Ukmerctechie | Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:25 am Post #274 |
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Dir is Kool. WKKP Forever!
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Racing has left the Building |
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| RobertE | Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:47 pm Post #275 |
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Serial victim...
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What a shame! Why? Did I miss something? |
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| cossie connoisseur | Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:07 pm Post #276 |
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there can be only one ;-)
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he still logs in every now and then |
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| Conrad | Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:51 pm Post #277 |
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Therapy Needed
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The Maki Scandal... I don't see this as grounds for Jesper leaving, but it's his decision at the end of the day.
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| RobertE | Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:53 pm Post #278 |
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Serial victim...
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Oh, I see. Or rather I don't... |
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| Conrad | Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:02 pm Post #279 |
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Therapy Needed
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Maki (Thomas, who a few of us met at Nurburgring in 2005 - me included), came on here and ranted high and low about Jesper's workmanship, ability and professionalism. Jesper said he wasn't going to argue on a public forum and that Thomas should speak to him face-to-face rather. Since then we haven't seen hide nor hair of him, though he still posts on the Rev. |
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| cossie connoisseur | Wed Mar 12, 2008 2:15 pm Post #280 |
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there can be only one ;-)
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apparently maki tried sorting things out with racing but it did not happen so they just did not get along. I dont have a problem with what was shown (with pics to back up) but the nastyness should have been kept out. hope he comes back but i feel his reputation was tarnished so he wont |
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so if anyone else is tuning a crazy 8-M102, I have some spare tough springs!






9:33 AM Jul 11