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Thrust bearing/clutch/Getrag noises
Topic Started: Sun Nov 23, 2008 12:05 am (2,514 Views)
Nathan
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Am I right in thinking the slight knocking noise coming from the car when warm is the trust bearing? It goes away when you put the clutch in. Is this common on 2.5-16's for this to happen?
Any idea how much it would cost to do. Suppose I may as well change the clutch while im at it, is there any performance clutches out there for our cars?

Thanks in advance.
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merc190uk
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The Godfather

i believe so

nine times out of ten if you press the clutch pedal and it goes quiet its normally the thrust bearing

as for hd clutches not sure and to be honest don't think there is any real need with the valvers
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matsalleh76
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The Getrag gearbox on the 2.3/2.5's has inherent neutral rattles at an idle speed of less than say, 950rpm: a "good morning" knocking rattle when the gearbox is cold which eventually transforms into a light chattering rattle that stays with you for the rest of the day. Both disappear when the gears stop turning ie after depressing the clutch.

They are probably due to the clearances in the gearbox which allow the input and lay shafts to fight & play a bit. Some gearboxes have a devise that generates drag on the lay shaft to take up the play.

The rattles have nothing to do with the clutch throw-out bearing which makes a different lighter rattle when it begins to go bad.

The gearbox rattles will diminish if you set idle speed higher or if you change from the recommended ATF gearbox oil to normal 90 gearbox oil, however both solutions have their disadvantages. The former if over done, will make the car sound a bit frantic, the latter makes gear changes slower as the syncros work harder in the heavier oil.

The Getrag gearbox has great ratios and with renewed shift linkage bushes is a joy to use but can be annoying at idle......

I agree that the standard clutch is smooth & generally fine for everyday use on even a moderately modified car. There are performance clutches available but they tend to be a bit harsh.

Regards,
bobf

Edited by matsalleh76, Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:32 am.
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RobertE
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What an excellent, concise and informative answer. Good for you, Bob!
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Gnasha
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RobertE
Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:18 am
What an excellent, concise and informative answer. Good for you, Bob!
seconded, even tho I'm an auto man myself

just shows how much exp there is on this site and people are willing to take the time to share it
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RichardCC
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Ah Ah, WELL that may explain my tractor rattle sound when I start up and drive off. Exactly the symtons you have described, so I will try some 90 in my gearbox. I don't go anwhere fast, so a slow change in gears is fine for me,

Cheers

Richard
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Nathan
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Thanks matsalleh76 thats a very informative post :J but i would like to compare with someone maybe at a gtc because I still think it's excessive.
Edited by Nathan, Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:53 am.
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dave_irl
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Gnasha
Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:35 am
RobertE
Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:18 am
What an excellent, concise and informative answer. Good for you, Bob!
seconded, even tho I'm an auto man myself

just shows how much exp there is on this site and people are willing to take the time to share it
+3.

Thanks Bob, great info. Really looking forward to my Getrag swap more than ever.

PS Nathan I spotted a range of clutches for our cars here, www.specclutch.com, I was looking at the Stage 2 Kevlar. For my application I think it would give very long life and take some abuse. Sachs also do a good range of clutches, and I have seen clutches from Sprinter vans used on the high power turbo 16vs, but I dont know where they source those from.
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Nathan
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dave_irl
Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:57 am
PS Nathan I spotted a range of clutches for our cars here, www.specclutch.com, I was looking at the Stage 2 Kevlar. For my application I think it would give very long life and take some abuse. Sachs also do a good range of clutches, and I have seen clutches from Sprinter vans used on the high power turbo 16vs, but I dont know where they source those from.
Ta Dave but they ant cheep, well get what you pay for i guess. Hmm not sure if its worth it for mine now as its pritty much running standard power ^o)
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dave_irl
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Not to mention if your OEM clutch still has life left in it :)
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Nathan
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Very true mate but im very fussy, I'm going to replace all my rear suspension sls etc. I may not need to because of the mileage but at the end of the day the car has been sat on it for 19 years.
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pentoman
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Reconditioning the gearbox was the first thing I did when I got my 2.5-16. And it came back still noisy and whining! Bloody stupid.
Not sure why they do this because the M3 has the same box and it doesn't do it........
Part of the reason I was telling NEIL not to rule out an auto 16v.
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Matt
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:lol: I can remember taking a friend out in a 16v for the first time a few years ago and his comment was "the gearbox sounds like a Metro" :lol: Im guessing its the way the teeth are cut on the gears.
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Johnboy Mac
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My gearbox is the same and has always been like that - knock on start up when cold and a constant bearing noise (sounds like worn clutch release bearing) at idle even with a new LUK clutch kit and fresh ATF. I was wondering if a new clutch fork and spigot bearing would help? I just can't belive there were like that from new.
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Big Ben
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The Red manual has a little rattle in it but the Black car is quiet and smooth! Most of the clutch/gearbox rattle dissapeared when we had the head rebuilt so the engine ran evenly.
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Johnboy Mac
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Thats interesting Big Ben. What mileage is on the car?
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RobertE
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I think it's tiny mileage - 12K?
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Neil
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Black one's 16k, iirc, the Red one's about ten times that.
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dave_irl
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pentoman
Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:32 pm
Reconditioning the gearbox was the first thing I did when I got my 2.5-16. And it came back still noisy and whining! Bloody stupid.
Not sure why they do this because the M3 has the same box and it doesn't do it........
Part of the reason I was telling NEIL not to rule out an auto 16v.
Wasnt it established a while back that the M3 does not in fact share the same box? Its still a Getrag but it was a different model. it was in one of Racings posts a while back. Ill try find it later.

Found it, pinned a Getrag thread in this section..
Edited by dave_irl, Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:41 pm.
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Big Ben
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Yep, Black car has 16000 and the Red one has 180000!

Good for comparisons! :lol:
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Nathan
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Well I do know that my engine mounts need doing and I was going to do the gearbox one's as a matter of course. As well as having work done on the top end it sounds like it should make a difference :blink:
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Johnboy Mac
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Yeah, I think your right Dave if they were the same I'm sure somebody either here in Europe or the U.S. would have spotted it. I'll check into it sometime. I have been told that somebody fitted a 6sp box from an E36 M3 into a 16v but I've no idea how much work was involved.
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stwat
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Matt
Wed Nov 26, 2008 1:38 pm
:lol: I can remember taking a friend out in a 16v for the first time a few years ago and his comment was "the gearbox sounds like a Metro" :lol: Im guessing its the way the teeth are cut on the gears.
Well i'm happy to find this thread :D

It makes me realise my gearbox is quite normal B)

Thank feck lmao

Mine really does sound like those close cut racing gearboxes from the touring cars. Probably because it is :D
Edited by stwat, Sat Apr 3, 2010 3:27 am.
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