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| dtm gearbox information? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mon Dec 8, 2008 7:06 pm (3,699 Views) | |
| dennisbots | Mon Dec 8, 2008 7:06 pm Post #1 |
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Does anyone has information what gearboxes they used in the dtm? Or maybe others sequential transmission's that can be used in the 190 16v? Greetings Dennis |
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| Sev | Mon Dec 8, 2008 7:23 pm Post #2 |
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I am a big Twat
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pretty sure it's been refuted that the m3 gearbox was used, so that one's out |
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| dennisbots | Mon Dec 8, 2008 7:51 pm Post #3 |
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A normal m3 does not have a sequential transmission. But if i look at some video's of the dtm they seem have sequential transmission (shifting only to front and back with no clutch) but i can be wrong. I'm new to transmissions but it interests me quit a bit because the 16v gearbox is strong but it shifts to slow imo. Edited by dennisbots, Mon Dec 8, 2008 7:52 pm.
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| dennisbots | Mon Dec 8, 2008 8:11 pm Post #4 |
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sorry my bad, They seem to shift like normal. I'm thinking to make the shift rods longer (under the car) so that the shift length go's a bit shorter and then make the shifting knob (in the car) longer so you can really hit it in the gears with some force. And make the flywheel lighter so that the shifting go's a bit easier. Also bronze shifting bushes go in, because the old one's where worn out, and i missed the gears sometimes when shifting fast. Any more idea's to adjust the gearbox to make it faster to shift? |
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| Lewis 190E 2.5 16 | Mon Dec 8, 2008 8:27 pm Post #5 |
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W201
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Yes adding a few cm on the shifting rods has been done to get a quicker shift, as for the gearboxes used in DTM cars, I have very little knowledge of those... |
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| stwat | Mon Dec 8, 2008 8:37 pm Post #6 |
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Do they have straight cut gears of some kind? |
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| zoomer46 | Tue Dec 9, 2008 1:19 am Post #7 |
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i'm pretty sure the dtm box was nothing to do with the road 16v's,![]() ![]() straight cut gears,power shifting facility,changeable ratio's ..... def not the same.. not too sure which make the dtm 's had but hollinger,hewland ,drenth,maybe quaiffe and xtrac too? Edited by zoomer46, Tue Dec 9, 2008 1:37 am.
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| matsalleh76 | Tue Dec 9, 2008 3:42 am Post #8 |
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Matsalleh76. RIP. Gone But Never Forgotten.
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Merc homologated both a 6 speed normal pattern gearbox and a sequential gearbox. I have no info on who made either but sequential gearboxes are available both from Japan and Australia: Google OS Giken and Hollinger Transmissions. Cost: ~US$10k Regards, bobf |
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| Chris Martens | Tue Dec 9, 2008 10:06 am Post #9 |
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Gentlemen, there is not only one "DTM spec box" so lots of your information is right even if it doesn't fit into one gear box. We are talking about a time period from 1985 (Snobeck started racing the valver in France) / 1988 (DTM started in Germany) to 1993 and there have been changes during this time. They startet with the 2.3-16 and a Getrag box with a looooong 1st gear, actually longer than the 2nd gear in the road box. gear / standard / group A I / 4.08 / 2.337 II / 2.52 / 1.681 III / 1.77 / 1.358 IV / 1.26 / 1.150 IV / 1.0 / 1.0 They ended in 1993 building class 1 monsters like that green one from sweden on the photos above that don't have very much in common with a road going 190. regards, Christian |
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| The Gorilla | Sat Dec 20, 2008 12:50 pm Post #10 |
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Hi, Group A Getrag with long first gear [2.3] would not be much use with the standard Merc 16v rear diff ratio. You would need around 3.73 CW/P upwards to make the rev drop between gears work on a track, on the road its different of course, but a 3.64 / 3.73/ even a 3.91 mated to the Getrag Close ratio box with long first gear would work. Hence why you see nearly all your DTM Cars running 4.45 and above, as they are trying to keep the engine rev matched to the power band of the engine in all gears. Some of the Endurance cars did run 3.9 or 3.7 rear diffs, and with their 2.33 first, 3.7 diff, 18'' wheels and 9000 rpm would hit 60mph / 100 kmh in first gear. No much use for a road car, but interesting at the Traffic lights though!! The Swedish car looks to be running a Hollinger ? from Australia, which given how narrow it appears in the photo may even be a sequential. Most sequential gearboxes run oil coolers so that as well makes me think its sequential. Genuine Sequential Gearboxes are no good for road use, and you really would not want to running one on the road. Altering the length and pitch of degrees on most remote gear selectors will shorthen the 'throw' and make the gearbox feel crisper. Stiffer gearbox mounts will also assist, as I note that the gear selector linkage on the 16v/s is not exactly simple and precise. Does nobody make a replacement selector kit for these cars ? and I am not referring to the 'bronze' bushes. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| dennisbots | Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:08 pm Post #11 |
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There is a old dtm 5.00 diff for sale. I am thinking to buy this. But it may be to short for a stock 16v gearbox to run on the street/track/drag with about 500hp and 9,000rpm? (centrifugal compressor) A friend of mine had a e30 with a tuned 3.5L and he swapped around with long and short diff's and the car was not happy with a short diff. It seemed to just not put the power on the road because of the short diff (to much shifting and no real acceleration) And what exactly do you main with the replacement selector kit gorilla? What can be made? Very interesting |
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| zoomer46 | Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:31 pm Post #12 |
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i think he means not just replacing the rod bushes, but the whole linkage set,when i get to work on my ca again,i'm thinking of making up a ball jointed rod set to get rid of all slack and also lengthen the 2 arms. |
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| The Gorilla | Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:52 pm Post #13 |
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Hi, DennisBots- You should be able to pull a 3.4 or maybe even a 3.27 with that sort of power, but forget DTM ratios for a Road car. Zoomer46- I was thinking along the lines of the BMW Rod linkage, Double shear rod, adjustable to be able to alter throw, rod ended etc, just need some time to look at it and figure something out. Does anybody have a picture of a Gearbox out of the Car with the linkage attached, and also one from underneath the car, with the linkage in situ, please ? Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| matsalleh76 | Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:28 pm Post #14 |
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Matsalleh76. RIP. Gone But Never Forgotten.
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"Torbjorn" in Norway has adapted a BMW M5 gearbox to a 16V bellhousing and posted photos of same on the 190Rev forum. A neat and sure shifting solution to the lousy Merc gearchange. regards, bobf. |
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| The Gorilla | Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:59 pm Post #15 |
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Hi, Matsalleh76- I was reading about that early this morning. Surprised that more have not done the C36 AMG Engine conversion into the 16v. I read that his C36 Engine is being rebuilt and that he was running a c280 with supercharger. There are a few about, nice Time Attack Car in Japan, and a very nice road car conversion was done in the UK a couple of years ago, never see much about it though. C36 AMG, simple way to 300 BHP plus if you do not mind a little extra weight up front. Genuine AMG engine Internals as well. Am I correct in that part of the Mercedes problem is that it has side activated selector rods ? Most BMW Getrag boxes are single rod selectors, central at the rear, which makes SSK easy, and there are numerous aftermarket kits about. Not sure why Mercedes /Getrag altered the selector rods on the 16v Box ? Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| RobertE | Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:10 pm Post #16 |
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Serial victim...
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Quietness, I imagine, but that need not concern us... |
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| Evo2racer | Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:44 am Post #17 |
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Very interesting post!! If i am not mistaken untill 1993 and therefore started after the evo's they were not using sequential gearbox in dtm... They only started with the 1993 - 190 klass1. Regardless, it can be adapted to our cars and Thorsten Stadler sells them for around eur 13'000. Check out this awesome video of an evo2 race-car with a sequential gearbox http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VcZ8Sqnd9o I saw it this week end in Germany its insane! Edited by Evo2racer, Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:46 am.
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| Mohammad | Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:46 pm Post #18 |
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weneakhborz
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I love this Kind of Information Flow....keep the Posts Flowing. |
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