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Should I rebuild ?
Topic Started: Sat May 2, 2009 8:45 pm (1,051 Views)
coachwhip
Part of things
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Well Now I've finally got some space, time and a tiny bit of money spare, then I have pulled the cossie out of the unit and had a good look at it.

Bear in mind it had some accident damage and it was never a minter anyway.

The mechanical repairs don't bother me at all, but I want to know if you think it's worth repairing the body. I don't have loads of cash but am fully prepared to make this a long project. It's been off the road for around 5 years and over 3 were spent outside in all weathers with no protection.

Posted Image
Posted Image

The bumper/spoiler is pretty much ok, though off the car, same with rear valance.

Both rear arches are shot, really needs inner and outer ones, also just in front of arch on floor is a hole both sides, but good solid metal pretty close, though hole is large.

Then under the floor just after front arches are two other holes, one each side.

Posted Image
Posted Image

Then last real bit of rust is under the passenger side front inner wing, just by strut top.

Posted Image

Both front wings will probably have to be replaced, doors are pretty good, sills seem to be solid through the gaps in kit, so not expecting a lot of damage under them

So mainly we are talking rear quarter panels (£500 the pair from merc, 16v ones), inner arches though could repair but better to replace. Decent patches over the 4 holes front and rear on floorplan, then repair strut top on passenger side front. Then sort minor dents, scratches and respray.

Like I say the mechanical repairs are fine, engine is good, most other things would probably need replacing in an old one anyway.

In a few months I will have around a grand to spend on a car, that should pay for arches and some body repairs, if not all, depending if I can get a friend to help with them.


Anyway what do you lot think, is it worth it, I've never had lots of cash but I've always loved mercs and feel in love with the 190 since I first drove it.


Mike
Edited by coachwhip, Sat May 2, 2009 8:47 pm.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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to do it properly your looking at possibly 5k pluss.

front / rear wings will probably need changing

inner arches need work

sills inner and outer have probably had it

boot/doors/roof/bonnet will need close inspection

tbh rust in the rear window will probably be found.

depends how much this car means to you but i personally hate to see these cars broken up or scraped as they are not exactly common.

but if you dont have much money then it will really be long term and do you have attention span to stick with it?
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rhysmangatmotorsport
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Mangatmotorsport
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Im with Nick on this one, If it's gona set u back that sort of cash, ur better off selling / breaking this one and investing in another
that has a better base to start with...
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alan
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hmmmm interesting
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if the engine and running gear is good you maybe better off re shelling the car there is a lot of work needed to sort out that rust but if you got the time maybe it could be brought back from the dead
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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Afraid I'm with CossieCon and rhysman with this one, I think I would be looking on Ebay as with that kind of 'Rust' you need a new shell, for a 190 that one is dead. Then you could use that one as spares as a Xmas tree or even put the parts up for sale. and you might even recuperate your losses.

Cheers, Barrie.
Edited by balamb37, Sat May 2, 2009 10:41 pm.
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merc190uk
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The Godfather

easy fix if you can weld ?

you have the time and somewhere to do it then save it

why not ? if your welding it then it wont cost anything other than a bit of tin and gas

you can get repair outer arches too so can you not just use them instead of new wings

yourve had it this long it would be sad to give up on her now B)
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coachwhip
Part of things
[ *  * ]
cossie connoisseur
Sat May 2, 2009 8:55 pm
to do it properly your looking at possibly 5k pluss.

front / rear wings will probably need changing

inner arches need work

Rears certainly do, prepared for that though, inners should be easy (as bodywork goes) to fix. Front inner will be more challenging though.

sills inner and outer have probably had it

Sills look solid, apart from the ends where those holes are underneath, will pull side skirts off next week to check properly, but the ends seen through the holes in skirts are solid.

boot/doors/roof/bonnet will need close inspection

Bonnet, roof and boot are rot free, doors are average, as I remember the bottoms are starting to go.

tbh rust in the rear window will probably be found.

Where is this rust likely to actually be ? I'll take a good look next time then.

depends how much this car means to you but i personally hate to see these cars broken up or scraped as they are not exactly common.

That's the problem, I want a 16v and as they are getting rarer then I'm loath to scrap it really. I would only reshell into another 16v body as otherwise according to the vin plate it would always be a 8v with an engine transplant. Maybe i will get another, but I can trickle money into this one, or can really struggle to save for another one, but saving is harder.

but if you dont have much money then it will really be long term and do you have attention span to stick with it?

i had my capri 13 years, 3 engines, 1 full reshell. I only sold it with the 3.9v8 99% in and ready to roll due to loss of job. I've kept hold of this car since the loss of job and am prepared to spend a lot over a period of time on it. Although 16v's are fairly easy to pick up now, they may well get harder as more get scrapped. My friend is a sprayer and can get use of the dealership booth to finish car, I will only have to pay for materials, his friend likes project cars and is a good bodywork bloke, i will be having a word with him to see about the bits that need doing.

Thanks for the replies so far, I will hang fire for now on buying big parts until I get the money, then make a decision. I've seen escorts that are a lot worse rust wise brought back. If it's just time and effort I'd like to keep a 16v alive rather than scrapping it.


Mike
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stwat
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coachwhip
Sat May 2, 2009 11:07 pm
cossie connoisseur
Sat May 2, 2009 8:55 pm
to do it properly your looking at possibly 5k pluss.

front / rear wings will probably need changing

inner arches need work

Rears certainly do, prepared for that though, inners should be easy (as bodywork goes) to fix. Front inner will be more challenging though.

sills inner and outer have probably had it

Sills look solid, apart from the ends where those holes are underneath, will pull side skirts off next week to check properly, but the ends seen through the holes in skirts are solid.

boot/doors/roof/bonnet will need close inspection

Bonnet, roof and boot are rot free, doors are average, as I remember the bottoms are starting to go.

tbh rust in the rear window will probably be found.

Where is this rust likely to actually be ? I'll take a good look next time then.

depends how much this car means to you but i personally hate to see these cars broken up or scraped as they are not exactly common.

That's the problem, I want a 16v and as they are getting rarer then I'm loath to scrap it really. I would only reshell into another 16v body as otherwise according to the vin plate it would always be a 8v with an engine transplant. Maybe i will get another, but I can trickle money into this one, or can really struggle to save for another one, but saving is harder.

but if you dont have much money then it will really be long term and do you have attention span to stick with it?

i had my capri 13 years, 3 engines, 1 full reshell. I only sold it with the 3.9v8 99% in and ready to roll due to loss of job. I've kept hold of this car since the loss of job and am prepared to spend a lot over a period of time on it. Although 16v's are fairly easy to pick up now, they may well get harder as more get scrapped. My friend is a sprayer and can get use of the dealership booth to finish car, I will only have to pay for materials, his friend likes project cars and is a good bodywork bloke, i will be having a word with him to see about the bits that need doing.

Thanks for the replies so far, I will hang fire for now on buying big parts until I get the money, then make a decision. I've seen escorts that are a lot worse rust wise brought back. If it's just time and effort I'd like to keep a 16v alive rather than scrapping it.


Mike
My hat goes off to you Mike. Your heart and sentiments are in exactly the right place B)

I wish you all the best in your restoration and hope to see regular updates :)

Stu
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Johnboy Mac
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More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
If you want a 16V the good news is you have one, and know exactly it's condition which is an advantage as you could be buying a cheap'ish one and have as much work to do on it as they all rot in the exact same places.

So do the body 100% right with new panels were practical and a repaint where required when as money allows.

With the body done you have a very good car to work on which will be all the more enjoyable.

Put it this way if you sold it as is what would you get for it? And then you'd be without a known condition 16V. Bear in mind these cars are unlikely to decrease in value and if anything will rise over the next few years.

Good luck.
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hitenb
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Addicted
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Johnboy IRL
Sun May 3, 2009 12:45 am
If you want a 16V the good news is you have one, and know exactly it's condition which is an advantage as you could be buying a cheap'ish one and have as much work to do on it as they all rot in the exact same places.

So do the body 100% right with new panels were practical and a repaint where required when as money allows.

With the body done you have a very good car to work on which will be all the more enjoyable.

Put it this way if you sold it as is what would you get for it? And then you'd be without a known condition 16V. Bear in mind these cars are unlikely to decrease in value and if anything will rise over the next few years.

Good luck.
I like the way you think, makes sense!

:)
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jeremy
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Too Far Gone To Help
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There was one unanswered question, and that is the rust around the rear window is generally to be found along the lower edge, easily seen if you open the bootlid, but also sometimes on the top edge too.

There is a huge amount of satisfaction to be gained from bringing cars back from the dead, and enjoying them, knowing that the work is all yours..................keep us posted with lots of piccies.


Jeremy
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alan
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hmmmm interesting
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if your gona rebuild good luck im doin the same with mine although not in as bad a nick repairing as them money comes along i have spare parts sitting for a year now waiting for the fitting money to come along and im just sorting a 2ltr would love a valver to work on but good luck and have fun with it she will be sorted one day just keep reminding yourself of the feeling of blasting her down the motorway with her in mint nick
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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the rubber inserts around the top of the doors need removing then you can check for rust, problem is removing the body kit can reveal lots of horors HOWEVER its not guranteed!

with the sills if the end have gone and enough dirt and water have got in there then you will likely have aditional rust there but again not guranteed.

tbh the best thing is to remove the body kit, the luggage compartment cladding ect and do a full check over.

I was luck with mine all the rust was vissible so under the cladding it was solid or i was looking at a big expense.

i hope you find a way of keeping it, and at the end of the day if your ok with doing the work with a mate then you will save a fortune.

the best of luck with it :)
Edited by cossie connoisseur, Sun May 3, 2009 8:25 am.
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coachwhip
Part of things
[ *  * ]
Took the skirts off and had a good look in the boot.

Front wing/sill. You can see the hole underneath, the wing is gone on this side. sill is solid apart from that hole under, though it isn't over good metal going under the car from that hole, not terrible but will need a bit more cutting out. Still it's the floorplan so not too hard to do.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Rear of sill, rear arches shot, but i knew that, same sort of hole as at the front. Pity the sill has gone up on the top edge, possible to repair but really for the money may as well have outer sill, at least I get a good look inside then.
Posted Image

Under rear screen, that's surface rust, nothing major there so well pleased with that part.
Posted Image

Bottom of boot lid, well knackered but the rest of the lid is fine, just down here hidden, so possibly a repair rather than a lid.
Posted Image

The bits shown are the bad bits, anything else is pretty solid. Checked the doors, they are in pretty good nick, boot floor is fine apart from round arches, none on roof.

All in all about what I thought, so still a possible repair on this car.

Mike
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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is it a 2.3 or 2.5?
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CrysAk
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Moar Bass!
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i thought mine was bad!!! :O

reshell it m8 , theres pretty much 2/3rds of a car you got there and all the money you spend on the bodywork, it will never be 100% as it was out of the factory, i recently had alot of bodywork done to mine (see this thread - http://s14.zetaboards.com/mercedes_190_club/topic/225220/1/ ) but that was not as bad as yours. and still cost me 3k+ to put right (let alone the 6 months) , best be imo, would be to break it and get yourself a solid one to start with.
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mindingthepotole
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Go on... buy a rusty one. lol
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mate, where are you located?

i will very happily weld that up for you of you cant do it.....

keep it on the road, you will regret it if you don't, i sure did thinking in hindsight about the 2.0 sportline i broke up.

mark
Edited by mindingthepotole, Mon May 4, 2009 9:32 pm.
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coachwhip
Part of things
[ *  * ]
It's a 2.3.

Much as I am tempted to reshell in one way, how much is a 2.3 with a very good body likely to cost me, bearing in mind I could be looking at a couple of years or so to do this one anyway. So it could well take me that sort of time or more to save for a replacement car. No point in trying to scrap mine to get some cash back as I'd want to keep the engine as a spare anyway, having had the bottom end rebuilt when it was on the road.

Oh, and I'm in Shropshire, west of the west mids.

Mike
Edited by coachwhip, Mon May 4, 2009 9:32 pm.
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matth190
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190 squirt
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Ebay link

Its a 2.3 as well!! It's good for a project, cause it seems not bad as yours mate! Here is the one your looking for mate!

Go for it!
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coachwhip
Part of things
[ *  * ]
matth190
Mon May 4, 2009 9:44 pm
Ebay link

Its a 2.3 as well!! It's good for a project, cause it seems not bad as yours mate! Here is the one your looking for mate!

Go for it!
Looking at the list it's not far off mine.

He thinks it needs rear wings, plus two spots of excessive corrosion. Mine has 5 spots but they do look easy ish to repair, well maybe not the front inner wing.
The rear wings means that i need a fair bit of paint doing anyway, so a full spray isn't too much on top really, that would sort out any other problems. It's nearly 700 quid now, thats the welding sorted on mine easily, then just need to get the rear wings fitted.

At least I know my engine is good, having had a cam tensioner and a full bottom end rebuild since i've had it.

Basically if i decide to scrap and get another car then the body must be mint, nothing must need doing as the money i will spend over a period of time on mine would be the money I would have to buy the replacement with.

Holes in cars always looks bad but the main cost of repairs is the time involved, the metal itself costs hardly anything.

Mike
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sportline_stu
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Good luck with the repairs mate.

I'm with the half that think you should repair. It may take a while and cost a few quid but I would love to own a restored 16valver knowing all the work had been done properly and with the right parts.

At least you will know there will be no horrible surprises over the next few years and to me, that would be priceless.

As it stands I think my car is solid, but come MOT time there is always a reason to be nervous with a 19 year old car as you never know what will be discovered!

Stu.

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