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| Tweet Topic Started: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:32 am (623 Views) | |
| The Gorilla | Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:32 am Post #1 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Couple of questions please- Are all the ancillis on the 2.5 16v same at the 2.3 16v, like starter, alternator etc Are the 190 4 pot ancills same as the 2.3/2.5 16v, again starter, alternator etc Does anybody happen know by how much a DTM Header fouls on a RHD steering box ? Is it by a small margin or a major re-route ? or, what amount of obstruction is caused when using the LHD 2.5 Header in a RHD Car ? I am trying to find out if the obstruction caused by the steering box is due to the size of the S/box itself, and that the connecting linkage without the S/box would clear. ie] the line of the steering colum/ linkage is not at issue. This one is for those running the remote oil take off from Stadler or ATEC, are any of you using an an 'in-line' oil fitre as opposed to a remote head/ filtre with stat ? Many thanks, Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| jeremy | Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:57 am Post #2 |
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Too Far Gone To Help
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The LHD cars all used a different header , because of the steering box .and it is not so nice either. at Hockenheim my curly exhaust manifold was much foto'd and admired . Jeremy |
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| RobertE | Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:59 am Post #3 |
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Serial victim...
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As far as I know, the ancilliaries on all valvers are the same - they certainly look it to me. Not sure about the other four bangers. DTM manifold only fitted to LHD cars, so don't know that one. Standard manifold more swept back but looks bendable. I posted a pic of an LHD one I have for sale. You can see the difference clearly. I have installed Jenvey TBs on a shortened manifold without fouling the filter housing, but I think I'm going to have trouble with the airbox. You can't win, it seems. To run the initial install, I've lashed up individual filters. We'll see... |
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| The Gorilla | Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:48 am Post #4 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Jeremy- The RHD Header is about 3-4 BHP down on its LHD counterpart. Old adage of looks or performance, bit like most women I have ever meet. From the pics I have seen its appears as if the DTM Header would fit if there was no steering box, and also moving the engine back about 50/60 mm would also place the 'down part' of the primaries further away. Might mean some bulkhead re-jigging for the engine / gearbox bellhousing clearance. RobertE- yes, I was thinking the same, as the blocks externally appear the same its just the internals that are different. Oil Filtre housing, will see. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| The Gorilla | Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:22 pm Post #5 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Will the 2.6 Alternator fit the 16v does does anybody know ? They seem the same but just have differing pick ups on the block, but bolt spacing appears as if its the same ? 16v Main Crank Pulley- is there a version with any form of harmonic damper ? or is all the Crankshaft dampening done via the balance of the Crank / Crank Balance weights itself ? I have searched and looked at the many DTM pics, but could not find any 16v/ DTM 4 pots with any layered type harmonic balance Crank pulley. Buzzy high revving 4 pots usually require a dampened Crank Pulley of some sort ? As for the power steering bracket, pulley and pump, well no wonder there is a steel shortage. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| Stempies | Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:04 pm Post #6 |
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Hot Lips
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Parts from new! Alternator - Bosch 0 120 489 323.. Was fitted to - 1.8; 2.0; & 2.5-16 Alternator - Bosch 0 120 489 232..Was fitted to - 2.3-16 Starter Motor - Bosch 0 001 108 003..Was fitted to - 1.8; 2.0; 2.3-16 & 2.5-16 Alternator - Bosch 0 120 489 328.. Was fitted to - 2.6 Starter Motor - Bosch 0 001 110 016..Was fitted to - 2.6 Very early 2.0's had different numbers for the alternator for some reason! (got them to if you need them) Voltage Regulator varied between models, may have numbers for them somewhere if needed! Edited by Stempies, Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:18 pm.
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| Johnboy Mac | Mon Jul 20, 2009 3:16 pm Post #7 |
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More than part of things
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Gorilla. I recall a South African (R/H/D non cat) 2.5-16 owner who rebuilt his engine to standard spec. and reported a loss 4-5bhp from the quoted 204bhp. So that would suggest your correct about the r/h & l/h headers. If there is no harmonic damper fitted to any version of the 16V I'd accept that as good news? |
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| The Gorilla | Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:07 pm Post #8 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Stempies- many thanks for the reply. I think the Alternator is the same across most 190 Range, just some have larger voltage outputs. Johnboy IRL- Well, I am guessing that the std 16v Crank is balanced via the counterweights and that a lot of the harmonics are absorbed via the rotating mass and offset via the rods/pistons. However, high revving 4 cylinder engines are prone to Crank oscillation or vibration, which if not 'dampened out' effectively shakes the engine to bits from its internals. Bit like how much more harsh and noisey your Track car becomes with stiffer mounts, solid suspension bushes etc. The vibration has to go somehwere now that the road going rubber bushes and mounts have been removed. High revving 2.5 S14 4 pots endure more Crank flex that there shorter stroke 2.3 counterparts. Hence if you look at any highly tuned or DTM 2.5 s14 you will see a Crank Pulley with vibration dampner, to assist with these very issues. Also they are rebuilt every 1500km. This is in part why I went with the 2.3 rather than a 2.5, short stroke aside, it will hopefully rev more freely than a long rod engine, which for the short bursts of daily road driving, will hopefully work better. I would be really surprised if the AMG / DTM 190's do not have some form of Crank damping somewhere or somehow. I was looking to knife edge the crank slightly to reduce the roatating mass, but unless there is an effective Crank dampner available it will be balanced, and then blue printed, but not put on a diet. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| Chris Martens | Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:29 pm Post #9 |
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Part of things
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This is the harmonic damper each 16V has (this has a hall sensor / M6 screw for Racing's ignition setup). These parts will fail at 300hp Don't know how they did it in good ol' DTM. regards, Christian |
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9:18 AM Jul 11