Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Photobucket
Welcome to Mercedes-190.co.uk

We are the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and fans of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome.

This free UK based forum was started back in November 2005 to serve the Mercedes 190 W201 community and now has over 9000 members from all around the world and 600,000 + posts.

The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around.
We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs.
Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide

Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up.

Join our forum at mercedes-190.co.uk!

If you're already a member please log in to your account:

**New members signing up**
please check your junk mail for the email authorization email
otherwise we cannot verify your new account.
I have noticed a lot of unauthorized accounts in the system.
Regards
Admin

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Hydraulic Valve Lifters; A more detailed post (HELP) :)
Topic Started: Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:01 pm (3,987 Views)
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Gents,

I'd done a very vague post before about my hydraulic lifters (2.0). I decided to go and see what my mechanic said about it.. So I left the car overnight and for the better part of the next day. The mechanic said that he hadn't heard any noise whatsoever from it. Hmmm...I found that a little strange because the car had been making the noise constantly every morning after the oil pressure went up. So clearly, he didn't want to do the job as he had 12 other cars that day! Anyway, he flushed the engine and renewed the oil and filter. Next morning..tap tap tap tap tap until it gets slightly warm and its been that way for 2 weeks or longer now..

I went to MB and got a new set of 8 valve lifters:

Posted Image


Looks used! :ermm:
Posted Image


I also managed to grab a new gasket for the rocker cover. I've been thinking about how I'm going to go about this, I'm not willing to splash lots of money on getting this done, but at the same time I can understand that this is sensitive engine work!

I looked through the Haynes manual and read through, but I'm unsure about a few bits such as (taken from haynes)

Under normal conditions, the valve lifters will automatically adjust to take up the clearance between the rocker arm and the valve stem, and no problems will occur

If, however, component wear becomes excessive, or the valve train becomes noisy in operation after renewal of the camshaft, rocker arms, valves or any of the valve lifters, it is possible that the operating clearance has now become outside the operating limits of the valve lifters. In this case, it will be neccessary to change the spacer washer for one of a different thickness

To determine the required thickness of the spacer washer, a Mercedes-Benz special dial gauge tool and clamp is required, and the work should be entrusted to a dealer.


The bits that are confusing me:

-How do I get the hydraulic lifter and the spacer washer out using a 'mandrel'?
-The part about measuring the thickness of the spacer washer
-Can anyone recommend a reasonable mechanic? I'm based in NW London?

I look forward to hearing back from you guys...

Thanks :)






Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


I cant really help with any info on the fitting, Hiten. But i had some fitted a few years ago and it only cost me around £80 parts included. Its not a big job at all and im fairly certain the cam doesn't need to be removed at all.

I was going to do them myself, but i got such a good quote that i let the mechanic get his hands dirty instead :D


The oil inside the new lifters is what they pre-oil them with. Its the same red oil that comes with cam kits etc. It stops any wear happening when you first fire up the engine and helps them bed in.


Once fitted, don't be alarmed if you still hear some clatter from cold start. This will disappear after the lifters have properly bedded in.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Cool..Thanks for that Stu, did you also have the spacer washers replaced?

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


No mate, just the lifters.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
I see... the spacer washer situation explained in my first post - extracted from the Haynes manual almost makes it sound like a job done on the 16V for valve clearances, etc. Wonder if it is very crucial to do the spacer washers. Would it not make it 'ok' to change all the spacer washers to one thickness?

cheers, Hiten ;)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Richy190E
Member Avatar
bubble bubble
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
The spacers seldom wear, the tappets just get lazy and noisy. Unless oil changes have been neglected (the cam will tell the story) you should be fine.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Thanks Richy.. The car has got 83 on the clock and I've done plenty of oil and filter changes so far. Would it make sense to change the spacer washers while the tappets were being changed? Would I need to measure the width or would a certain thickness be ok for all eight?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rick 1
Member Avatar
More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
im no expert. :)
but i did them on a 8 valve.i just did the lifters,an everything was fine.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Richy190E
Member Avatar
bubble bubble
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
To know which shims to get i imagine you might need to measure the cam. Just the lifters should do the trick. Mine had its first set of lifters at 170k and showed no other sign of wear.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
rick 1
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:16 pm
im no expert. :)
but i did them on a 8 valve.i just did the lifters,an everything was fine.
did you buy a mandrel to get the lifters out ? or did you use some other way?

Cheers !
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Richy190E
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:19 pm
To know which shims to get i imagine you might need to measure the cam. Just the lifters should do the trick. Mine had its first set of lifters at 170k and showed no other sign of wear.
Sounds like I'd be pretty safe with just changing the lifters by the sounds of it...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kentronix
Member Avatar
I'm only really here for the Kitchens

Roll it on over to mine some time hiten, I would be happy to give you a hand.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Thanks matey, looks like its the in-direct booking to an E-GTG :D
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
kentronix
Member Avatar
I'm only really here for the Kitchens

I will chill the pilsner :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Hehehe... ;)

Ohh and fire up the projector!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rick 1
Member Avatar
More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
hitenb
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:19 pm
rick 1
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:16 pm
im no expert. :)
but i did them on a 8 valve.i just did the lifters,an everything was fine.
did you buy a mandrel to get the lifters out ? or did you use some other way?

Cheers !
no i just placed the arm over a socket and gently tapped them out with a screwdriver.
Edited by rick 1, Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:44 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
ahh cool.. saved you from having to get the madrel...

BTW, what did you do with the beige interior door cards you had before the switch to leather? unless i'm mistaken and you've always had the same cards in, but different seats.

Cheers matey!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rick 1
Member Avatar
More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
hitenb
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:50 pm
ahh cool.. saved you from having to get the madrel...

BTW, what did you do with the beige interior door cards you had before the switch to leather? unless i'm mistaken and you've always had the same cards in, but different seats.

Cheers matey!
no worries.i did also get the plain beige door cards with the seats which ive now fitted.
i think the cloth insert ones are knocking around in the shed somewhere. :)

i think they are on the freecycle section somewhere.along with the rest of the interior.
Edited by rick 1, Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:02 am.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
rick 1
Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:00 am
hitenb
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:50 pm
ahh cool.. saved you from having to get the madrel...

BTW, what did you do with the beige interior door cards you had before the switch to leather? unless i'm mistaken and you've always had the same cards in, but different seats.

Cheers matey!
no worries.i did also get the plain beige door cards with the seats which ive now fitted.
i think the cloth insert ones are knocking around in the shed somewhere. :)

i think they are on the freecycle section somewhere.
If you're up for selling (no pressure) the rear ones, provided they're not blown like mine, then I'd be a willing customer :)

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
rick 1
Member Avatar
More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
hitenb
Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:02 am
rick 1
Mon Jul 27, 2009 12:00 am
hitenb
Sun Jul 26, 2009 11:50 pm
ahh cool.. saved you from having to get the madrel...

BTW, what did you do with the beige interior door cards you had before the switch to leather? unless i'm mistaken and you've always had the same cards in, but different seats.

Cheers matey!
no worries.i did also get the plain beige door cards with the seats which ive now fitted.
i think the cloth insert ones are knocking around in the shed somewhere. :)

i think they are on the freecycle section somewhere.
If you're up for selling (no pressure) the rear ones, provided they're not blown like mine, then I'd be a willing customer :)

there not blown.ill have a look tomorrow and see if there there.(cant remember if i binned em)
if there they you can have em ;) .
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Thanks loads, I'm so badly desperate for a set of those! :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
balamb37
Member Avatar
Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You won't need to change the "spacer" as it doesn't wear, your cams will wear first and you will see the results of that when you take the 'rocker cover' off if they are worn, the important thing to remember is to fill the 'Hydros' with engine oil before fitting as if you don't you could still have the ticking noise for a long time after doing the job, it could go within a couple of revving and it could last up to a fortnight, it isn't the bedding in but the time it will take them to fill completely with oil.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Phew.. its a relief to find out that I don't need to do the spacers! I'll most definitely remember to fill them up with oil. What happens when they start tapping away? Is it because they're not getting oil into them anymore? The effects on the car (i'm assuming) are decreased performance and a higher fuel consumption?

cheers
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Richy190E
Member Avatar
bubble bubble
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
They just gunk up with carbon or lose their seal so cant hold their oil any more, the noise you hear is the increased gap, instead of the oil cushioning the cam action. No real detrimental effect, its more irritating than anything until it becomes very loud.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
thank god for that.. hehehe...

I think more than one of mine are stuck, well sounds that way at least.. its quite loud for a while then it suddenly stops then a fainter one starts then it stops. Unless its the same one getting stuck and unstuck! Surprisingly there was nothing this morning, but once I started the car to leave work.. TAP TAP TAP..
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
balamb37
Member Avatar
Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
When the engine is cold on start-up they normally 'click' a bit, but if they tick all the time specially
when the engine is warm then it's high time to change before the 'cams' start wearing as they are expensive.
It's best to check the oil delivery pipe is clear also whilst changing as it is that that delivers the oil to the 'Hydros' and it can get blocked-up too.
Inside the 'Hydro' is a little valve held with a little spring and when you fill them with oil carefully prod the valve a couple of times to allow the oil to go underneath it, it is normally that valve and spring that weakens and they loose their 'hydraulicking' effect, and also as Richy says they get gunged-up so they start sticking.




Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
balamb37, thanks for that insightful explanation. It has really put things into perspective now.. I'll remember to insert a wire into the little ball and fill 'em up with oil in advance. I couldn't believe that such small buggers could make such a horrible noise. Oh well.. at least that'll all come to an end soon! Shall try and take pictures and hopefully do a small guide for people in the future. Cheers mate! ;)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
MadMike
Therapy Needed
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
hitenb
Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 pm
Shall try and take pictures and hopefully do a small guide for people in the future.
Please do. This is something which I would like to do to my car too. Have been putting it off though. It would be very helpful to see how its done !



Mike.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Sure, will take lots of pictures and hopefully do a write up!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
balamb37
Member Avatar
Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
I did mine about a year ago and the improvement was well noticeable, pulls better, purrs like a kitten and the fuel consumption improoved quite a bit.
But then again it is normal ,when you have increased tappet clearance your valves are opening and closing late so performance and consumption suffers.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
I really need better consumption, the consumption at the moment is just poor! Drinking through my finances with a large straw! :P
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Motionquality
Newbie
[ * ]
The hydraulic valve lifters (tappets) are simple to replace. You dont need any specialist tools - just a few spanners and a screw driver. They slide out of the rockers with a push from a screwdriver. Having never done the job before, it took me less than 45 mins start to finish!

But the best tip I can give you is this - if you live in NW London, then a 40 minute trip will take you to High Wycombe. This is where Boyan lives - an excellent 190 mechanic. Good fault analysis, great price. I recommend him highly, as so have others on this site.

Call him on 07506 708638 - mention Jeremy, red 190E. He did my timing chain, water pump etc - perfect!
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
hitenb
Member Avatar
Addicted
[ *  *  *  * ]
Motionquality
Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:06 pm
But the best tip I can give you is this - if you live in NW London, then a 40 minute trip will take you to High Wycombe. This is where Boyan lives - an excellent 190 mechanic. Good fault analysis, great price. I recommend him highly, as so have others on this site.

Call him on 07506 708638 - mention Jeremy, red 190E. He did my timing chain, water pump etc - perfect!
Thanks mate, I needed exactly that - to find someone who's specialised in all thing 190E as my current mechanic is excellent, has his own 190E too, but seems too busy these days to honour business that he deems as 'small stuff'... so I'll most definitely keep this chap in mind. I appreciate the contact
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Martrider
Member Avatar
Longest build time in history?
This isn't the same guy in wycombe that is a volvo specialist is it? He had a 190 too but I managed to break down in my volvo right outside his shop! :lol:

Anyway, a write up on both the 8vs and the 16vs would be awesome if anybody does one. Sounds like an easy fix. But I must say after 190k in my 8v I never once had any clicking.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
« Previous Topic · Engine · Next Topic »
Add Reply


Email me if anyone replys