| Welcome to Mercedes-190.co.uk We are the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and fans of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome. This free UK based forum was started back in November 2005 to serve the Mercedes 190 W201 community and now has over 9000 members from all around the world and 600,000 + posts. The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around. We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs. Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up. Join our forum at mercedes-190.co.uk! If you're already a member please log in to your account: **New members signing up** please check your junk mail for the email authorization email otherwise we cannot verify your new account. I have noticed a lot of unauthorized accounts in the system. Regards Admin |
| Do we have any engine rebuild specialists on here?; Need some advice/work done. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:11 pm (1,214 Views) | |
| Martrider | Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:11 pm Post #1 |
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Longest build time in history?
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Hi all, I need my 2.5-16 block ripped apart and inspected and given a once over. I obviously need the shims doing, but would like a general health check done on the engine before i send it for the bike carbs. SO does anybody on here actually do this kind of work? I don't want the whole thing blueprinted or anything just checked over and anything that needs doing, done. Can anybody help? Advise me where to contact? (I've been talking to Jems but it might be going a bit too far for what i need). Also, any expectation on cost? only a ballpark needed. Thanks Mart |
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| twopointsix | Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:25 pm Post #2 |
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Addicted
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Give Andy (UKMerchtechie) a call. 07914 805586. Everyone on here who's used his services is full of praise for his work. |
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| Richy190E | Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:27 pm Post #3 |
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bubble bubble
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If thats all you want doing then do it yourself you'll need a plastigauge set, a vernier caliper/depth gauge. In advance order a gasket set and you're pretty much away, clean bench and lots of labelled storage. If you were closer i'd offer to help but at £50 courier each way its a bit expensive, that is better spent on parts. Patience, cleanliness and a methodical approach are key. |
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| Martrider | Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:01 pm Post #4 |
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Longest build time in history?
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Would you be interested if i stripped the block down and could bring it over to you? I do need some kind of idea of what it would cost me though. I'd actually be interested in doing it myself but with somebody to advise on the day as i am unsure exactly what i am doing. I'm very competant but don't really know the 16v engine internals as well as i should. Would anybody be interested in giving me a days/weekend lesson? |
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| Richy190E | Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:35 pm Post #5 |
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bubble bubble
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Feel free to bring it over, we'll give it a good look over. If it needs work we can discuss it. I'll look at it and measure it up for free with you no problem. Feel free to keep your options open though as its a long way to travel. |
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| The Gorilla | Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:44 pm Post #6 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Martrider- I am not being negative to this I am just trying to understand it. I could not find any motorbike TB's with actual TB's that were greater than 42mm Diam at the butterfly. For sure some had 46mm diam inlet Stacks but the largest butterfly was 42 mm. Are you saying you have larger than 42mm diam at the butterfly ? Next item was the injector spray pattern, unless the Motorbike TB's are the same spacing as the cosworth inlet, how are you going to direct the spray from the fuel injectors directly onto the the inlet valves ? As any Injector spray pattern misalignment will cause serious running issues, hot and cold spots and even burnt valves. Do a quick Google on ''Petrol Injector Misaligment'' and you will soon get the picture. Having spent the best part of this weekend trying to match 4 x TB'S to a 2.5 Cosworth inlet while keeping the spary pattern at circa 100mm distance from tip of injector to back of inlet valve shoulder, all in line, and syncronised, has been and is proving to be a time consuming nightmare. I almost gave up, but being a Primate, unfortunatley it is all there for next weekend !!! The alignment, distance, spary pattern of any injector is critical, which in turn brings me to the question of the motorbike injectors and their suitability ? Ferrari 430 Fuel injectors give one of the best optimised spray patterns and are used in car engines that would make the original manufacture ''**insert swear word here**y'. As I said, I am not being negative just trying to understand what your goal is and the costs involved in getting there. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:50 pm Post #7 |
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Part of things
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@ Gorilla buddy, that's motorbike carbs...not TB's... |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:53 pm Post #8 |
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Part of things
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thread jack Gorilla..try bike carbs as your butterfly only (kill the fuel circuitry), and mount the injectors in your (bored-out to suit) original manifold, cut and shut to suit.. that way you get roughly stock spray distance/ pattern etc... |
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| Martrider | Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:28 pm Post #9 |
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Longest build time in history?
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No problems about the thread jack ![]() But this is one of the reasons i DIDN'T go ITBs and wanted to go non-injection Bike CARBS. No messing around for the sake of it and scratching heads. |
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| Uk Merc Man | Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:43 pm Post #10 |
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190e Leg-End
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you're not the only one, I forsee bike carbs in my future..... |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:00 pm Post #11 |
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Part of things
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Do it... |
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| Conrad | Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:18 pm Post #12 |
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Therapy Needed
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What's the advantage of bike carbs over EFI? |
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| The Gorilla | Mon Aug 24, 2009 5:22 pm Post #13 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Bike Carbs have fixed chokes correct ? K-Jetronic is known for throwing fuel down the 16v throat even when not working correctly, causing fuel wash to the bores etc. How do you prevent fuel wash if using Bike Carbs ? What power level will/do Bike Carbs work on the 16v ? as they were not over engineered in the first instance so will have their power iimits determined by what, their fixed choke ? I am interested as I misunderstood this thread. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:26 pm Post #14 |
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Part of things
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the governing factor is the fixed choke size, yes.. using them as carbs, you won't get bore wash; CV carbs only pump in as much fuel as the (induction) engine demands, slide carbs are more temperamental, yes, but they really are for 'race only' where you tend to have the foot down almost all the time. using them as butterflies, choose your ideal EFI injector and place it in the (newly-modified to suit) seat; place your butterfly at your pre-determined position of choice and hey presto...map away (yes, other than the x million other things to do when you 'go EFI'...I know...)... I'm not sure now I understand your confusion..??? And power levels? Dunno...have a go and tell us ;-) Edited by carl mcgraw, Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:29 pm.
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| The Gorilla | Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:28 pm Post #15 |
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Part of things
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Hi, Carl Mcgraw- many thanks for taking the time to reply. My confusion is this- If you use these Bike Carbs as the ''Butterflies'' only and retain the existing 16v Injector position, then the spacing bewteen the carbs will different for the 16v Manifold than the Bike. ie ] each carb [butterfly] now sits on a shortened/cut runner. This then means that the linkage between the carbs has to be altered, extended, whatever. So my point was how are you going to syncro or recalibrate them now that they have been altered ? If you have ever tried to re-calibrate the std 4 butterflies to a set of std TB's using the original linkage, then you will know how difficult this is. If the Carbs are not in absolute syncro then all the mapping in the world is not going to make the car run correctly. This was my original point. Slides if linked are easy to calibrate, but butterflies acting upon an re-configured linkage will be a whole new ball game. Regards, The Gorilla. |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:36 pm Post #16 |
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Part of things
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make a new spindle ;-) |
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| carl mcgraw | Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:39 pm Post #17 |
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Part of things
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I use a very good carb balancing tool too; 4 tube so 4 seperate vac feeds = very finite control. I balance left pair, right pair then centre...that helps ;-) |
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you'll need a plastigauge set, a vernier caliper/depth gauge. 
9:17 AM Jul 11