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| Welcome to the Mercedes 190 forum Welcome to the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and lovers of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome. This free UK based forum was started back in November 2005 to serve the w201 community and now has over 4000 members from all around the world and 340,000 + posts. The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around. We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs. Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up. Join our us at mercedes-190.co.uk! If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
| 2.3-16V LSD on a '90 1.8; Is it duable? | |
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| Topic Started: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:11 pm (203 Views) | |
| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:11 pm Post #1 |
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Hello all, Recently a 2.3-16V LSD has come up for sale in my area.. i'm thinking of buying it and having it installed on my car. (1990 1.8) What other parts would i need to install it? LSD+driveshaft+??? Would i see any "significant" differences in the car? For example at highways speeds would the car be reving more or less than stock? Would the power delivery be a bit quicker? Many thanks! Edited by ivan820, Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:11 pm.
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:11 pm Post #2 |
I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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Auto or manual diff and car? |
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:24 pm Post #3 |
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Oh my car is a manual and the LSD is taken off a manual 2.3-16V (North American version) Here is the vin results from MY car: VIN WDB201018********** Model 190 E 1.8 AUSTRALIA Chassis 2010181A574312 Engine 102910 10 006750 Transmission 717412 01 621244 Order 0 9 297 59130 Lights HELLA Wiper BOSCH Cab 03458 Delivery date 29.06.90 Dealer company employees / MBAG (297) Interior fabric plaid grey (378) Paint 199 metallic blue-black (с 01.01.1983) Options 411 mechanical and hydraulic sliding roof (с 01.10.1965 по 31.10.1993) 428 manual five-speed transmission (с 01.01.1970) 430 headrests in the rear (с 01.01.1977) 451 revolution counter (с 01.12.1972 по 31.10.1993) tachometer 466 central locking system (с 01.04.1970 по 31.10.1993) 470 anti-lock braking system (abs) (с 01.06.1978 по 31.10.1993) 508 outside rear view mirror, left, heated and outside rear view mirror, right, electrically adjustable and heated (l.h.d.) outside rear view mirror, left and right, heated (с 01.01.1990 по 31.10.1993) 537 mechanically operated antenna and front loudspeaker - without radio set (с 01.10.1989) 593 heat-insulating glass, all-around, heated rear window pane (single-sheet safety glass), band filter green heat-insulating glass all round, heated rear window, single pane safety glass - tinted strip (с 01.01.1972) 620 emission control system vehicles with catalyst technique (с 01.03.1985) Edited by ivan820, Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:26 pm.
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:45 pm Post #4 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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Diff needed and driveshafts,possible propshaft. The car will be much more relaxed and struggle to top out on the motorway. Acceleration will suffer and Max top speed will suffer,but it will be more relaxed when cruising on the motorway. Edited by Ukmerctechie, Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:46 pm.
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:20 pm Post #5 |
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Acceleration and top speed will suffer... hehe i was kind of hoping for the exact opposite. The 1.8 is slow enough as it is..you're saying with the lsd installed it would be in 190D acceleration territory So there isn't any real reason to install this..apart for reving at 2000 instead of 3000 on the highway (So.. fuel consumption, and engine pampering) Does everyone agree with this? If so i'll call to seller and cancel the deal... |
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| charl44 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:26 pm Post #6 |
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Only a fool would disagree with a Mercedes technician, he knows and understands more about Mercedes than anyone on here. Ian |
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:34 pm Post #7 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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*EDIT* Just seen this bit in your post "the LSD is taken off a manual 2.3-16V (North American version)" It could well be a 3.27:1 ratio if it is a NAM spec diff. You need to check the ratio before you buy. |
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:36 pm Post #8 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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I take it you are in england? How did a NAM spec 16v end up near you? |
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:39 pm Post #9 |
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I wish i was in England hehe, i'm acrtually in Canada.. My 1.8 was imported from Germany in 2006 and i fell in love with the "Euro" aspect of it.. so i had to buy it. ..i feel as though i rather jumped a step though, i apologize. Not being very mechanically inclined i don't quite understand all the different gear ratio and so on.. What is different from the NAM diff compared to the Euro.. and compared to the 1.8? Would a Diff off a 16V serve in any way to enhance the 1.8's performance? What i understood from your previous post is that it would put less strain on the engine by making it a bit slower and smoother to reach speeds? On highway speeds i should notice lower Rpm's and lower fuel consumption? Once again, apologies for my cluelessness hehe, i very much appreciate your help Edited by ivan820, Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:49 pm.
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:52 pm Post #10 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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I will need to know the exact ratios of the car and diff to be 100% sure but from experience,it is very unlikely to do anything for straight line performance but will help it in grip. I wouldnt be doing the conversion unless i planned on upping the power of the car at some time. |
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:00 pm Post #11 |
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^^ well that is the main reason i'm buying it... At some point in the near future i expect to swap in a E300 or E320 engine for sure.. i just don't have all the necessary funds right now to embark on that kind of project. I just went down and picked up the manuals from my car.. i'm transcribing them now. But most of this stuff is in german hehe... and i'm not noticing any diff ratios... And Thank you very much for your help Ukmerc, its greatly appreciated |
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:06 pm Post #12 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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Right after some digging thru my data,i am pretty sure the diff you will be buying is a 3.27:1 Your diff should be a 3.46:1. It will cause the car to behave as i first posted,though not as bad as a euro diff. If you up the engine to a 300/320 it will suit it just fine. NO problems about the help mate. A uk spec cossie diff is 3.07:1 so a taller diff again. Edited by Ukmerctechie, Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:08 pm.
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:11 pm Post #13 |
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so.. This is what is included in the car's manual Type: 190E 1.8 (201 018) Engine: 102 Work Cycle: 4-cycle fuel injection No. of cylinders: 4 Total piston displacement: 1797cm3 Compression Ratio: 9.1 Rated power according to EEC regulations: 80kw at 5500/min Rated torque according to EEC regulations: 150nm at 3700/min Max engine speed: 6000/min Poly V belt: 1885mm Disc Wheels: 6J x 15 H 2 Indentation depth: 49mm This one may help but i doubt it: Gradeability (%) 1st Gear: 43 2nd gear: 24 3rd Gear: 13 4th Gear: 8.5 5th Gear: 5.5 Top Speed (km/h) 1st Gear: 49 2nd Gear: 89 3rd Gear: 140 4th Gear: 185 5th Gear: 178 I also have a little booklet... looks like documentation from WW2(quite nice really) but its all in german.. The title reads.. Bundersrepublik Deutschland Betriebserlaubnis Kuhlergrill Mercedes W201 Typ: 01026 KBA: 35969 |
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:17 pm Post #14 |
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Great! thank you for that So my diff is 3:46:1, and i'll go to 3:27:1 if i install it. humm.. let me ask you a personal question if you don't mind hehe. If you had a 1.8, and weren't planning on swaping a 300 engine for at least 2-3 years.... would you install this diff or would you leave it stock? You knowledge of these cars far surpasses mine  i can't seem to decide if i go for it or not.. or buy it and leave it in back of the garage until I have the bigger engine.Edited by ivan820, Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:18 pm.
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:19 pm Post #15 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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Do you have a service book for the car? If so look in the back page and there is a data card. Print this online and let me look at it. |
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| JM Motorsport | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:20 pm Post #16 |
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lsd have the smaller diff housing so it should bolt straight on (they use the longer shafts), all 16v lsds should be 3.07. Top speed would in theory be higher, but its unlikely you will ever reach it, |
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:21 pm Post #17 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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I would buy it and install and see if i got on with it,but then again i dont have to pay for labour
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:26 pm Post #18 |
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humm.. i have what looks to be a little service booklet (all in german) but there is no card attached.. I also see a little pouch for the card on the plastic container... but it seems to be empty unfortunately I will take pictures of the little german booklet though and post the pics (i'll have them posted by this evening) |
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| merc190uk | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:30 pm Post #19 |
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damn those drums are back again 
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:38 pm Post #20 |
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I'm going to have to pay for every little detail.... including the screws and probably the mechanics meal At this point i'm 95% that i will buy it and 50% on installing it hehe. I wouldn't mind if the acceleration is a bit slower as I never really push the car that way. (I've dropped the clutch once since buying it 3 years ago hehe) But it would bother me if the difference in acceleration became quite noticeable.. 0 - 100 in a stock 1.8 takes I believe ~12 seconds... if the diff slows it down to more than 13-14 seconds i wouldn't really like that as the extra grip would be completely useless. What about power delivery? if say.. i'm at 3500 rpms in second gear and i floor the gaz pedal... would the LSD give me a sense of progress? or would i not notice a thing because of the lack of power.... humm.. i'm very tempted to do this, but only if i'm certain that i'd enjoy it.... as i woulnd't have the funds to immediatly replace it back with the stock if its not to my liking. what to do, what to do..... 
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:40 pm Post #21 |
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 this question has already been asked multiple times hasn't it? hehe
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| Ukmerctechie | Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:58 pm Post #22 |
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I only answer to Carlos Spicyweiner!
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Here you go Ivan heres a thread from Dave irl when he did the same swap on a 1.8. Diff swap Go to page 4 onwards,it has his opinions on the drive and what he had to change. |
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| ivan820 | Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:17 pm Post #23 |
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^^ That is really cool of you, thank you mate! I'm gonna start reading that now |
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