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Advice needed on a part (24/05/10)
Topic Started: Tue May 18, 2010 11:53 am (1,866 Views)
stuu
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Read Last post, updated thread 24/05/10.
Edited by stuu, Mon May 24, 2010 3:35 pm.
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Benzsc1
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Right it could be one of two things here mate.

You are either buying a 300E W124 M103 3.0 12 valve six cylinder petrol engine

Or you are buying a 230E W124 M102 2.3 8 valve 4 cylinder petrol engine

If you are using the 3.0 litre out of the 300E the slam panel off of a 2.6 will be required so much easier if you are starting with an original 2.6!

if its just the 230E engine then you should be fine and find its a reletively straght forward swap!

What I can't understand is why are you increasing the engine size if you are after more economy? Surely sloting a 1.8 in will make it more efficent or buy a 190 D

;)

Simon
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stuu
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Edited by stuu, Wed May 19, 2010 9:43 pm.
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stuu
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.
Edited by stuu, Wed May 19, 2010 7:08 pm.
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stuu
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19/05/10 Update

Okay so i can get a 1987 2.0L manual carburetor engine (only has 55,000 miles!) for an excellent price.

Is it a difficult job to switch the engines over seeing as my current one is fuel injection?

Are carb engines any more powerful or fuel economy?
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Nathan
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Less power and worse fuel economy.
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stuu
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Great lol :( that's not what i wanted to hear. My current 190e does around 16/17 mpg, will a good going carb get any better than this?
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Sax
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That`s terrible Stuu,do you run a 2.6?
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Nathan
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Yeah, MPG will be in the 20's when running right.

What have you checked on your current engine? I would have thought it would be a lot easier/cheaper to sort that.
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stuu
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Mines is a 2L manual sax. I've spent close to £1000 trying to get it fixed and its worse than ever. An engine is now probably the best option for me, they're really hard to come by in Northern Ireland especially the 2.0 or 2.3! :(
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Sax
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Bloody hell Stuu,after spending that kind of money you really want to stick with your car,what`s wrong with it that you can`t get it sorted?
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stuu
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I know that's the dilemma i face! :( Its super sore on juice and is to slow. 0 - 60 is over 15 seconds + 16/17 mpg.

The followings been changed:

Injectors, Fuel Distributor, air box, ignition, eha valve, lambda sensor, clutch, gearbox, ecu, fully serviced and a few more bits and pieces that i can't remember.

I adjusted the mixture using a multimeter to 49%, though the value doesn't fluctuate by +-10% so somethings still wrong.
Edited by stuu, Wed May 19, 2010 7:48 pm.
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Sax
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The cat`s not blocked is it?Also i`ve read somewhere on this forum about a blockage in the exhaust system,one of the members had a performance/economy problem and it turned out to be this.
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Sax
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I had the cat on mine unblocked,did make a marked improvement in performance.So are you getting around 250 per tankful?
I really hope that you get it sorted,keep us updated,best of luck !!
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stuu
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Cat's been removed, i get 230 max to a tank which now costs £60 :(

One thing i haven't checked is the front exhaust but may do soon.
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alogaparaloga
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Stuu, have done a compression test ?
Did anybody tried to rebuild the cynder head?
and what is the mileage of the engine?
Is the engine using any oil? how often you have to refill?
You may have to re-seat the valves.
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Johnboy Mac
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The last thing you want to do is change the engine. What you need is to find somebody that really knows the KE system and go from there. If they diagnoise the engine is fooked, fine so but that seems unlikely as you've no over heating, no excessive oil loss, no excessive smoke, it starts both hot & cold o.k. etc. So, if all that is the case, time for an expert. PM Michael, he should be able to advise you on what garage to use.
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stuu
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Yeah your right John, I definitely need an experts help on this! I've spent a lot of money and time on this engine.
Edited by stuu, Wed May 19, 2010 8:39 pm.
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Johnboy Mac
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stuu
Wed May 19, 2010 8:38 pm
Yeah your right John, I definitely need an experts help on this! I've spent a lot of money and time on this engine.


Hold your cool on this problem, no point in jumping to conclusions that might be incorrect. Stu, for what it's worth my gut feeling is could well be a minor problem. But I'm usually as much wrong as right :lol:
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stuu
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Well the car has been like this for over a year now :( It probably is something so minor, I've nearly replaced everything! lol.
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stuu
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alogaparaloga
Wed May 19, 2010 8:32 pm
Stuu, have done a compression test ?
Did anybody tried to rebuild the cynder head?
and what is the mileage of the engine?
Is the engine using any oil? how often you have to refill?
You may have to re-seat the valves.
No haven't done a compression test. The last mechanic said he looked at the cylinder head and said it was grand. There is 134K on the engine.
The car doesn't leak any oil and holds it well, was changed about 1000 miles ago.
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stuu
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Quick update:

My dad's friend whose a mechanic just looked at her there now. The car is leaking brake/clutch fluid and he said the fluid from the brake cylinder could be interferring with the engine. I'm not a mechanic so i didn't really understand but something to do with the leaking and air getting into it.
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Sax
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Stuu,i`ve just had a thought,you say that you`ve removed the cat,then i think you should also remove the lambda sensor( i may be wrong on this) otherwise it will run on emergency mode,which would explain the horrific fuel consumption and sluggish performance.Some of the more learned members may shed more light on this issue.
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stuu
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I think your still meant to keep the lambda sensor in even without the cat. Wouldn't be 100% sure like yourself sax.

Also, I was told about something to do with where you put the oil in. There's a tube from that to the air filter. When the oil cover is removed and the hose pulled off there's meant to be a 'blowback' but there isn't any. I don't know what that would indicate.
Edited by stuu, Wed May 19, 2010 9:33 pm.
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Sax
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Hhhmm,not sure about that Stuu.Ok like i said keep us updated,i hope you get it sorted asap.
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viffer
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Another factor you might want to consider is your driving style. How heavy is your right foot? That's usually a consideration with low MPG. Could be chasing a fault that doesn't exist!
HTH
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alogaparaloga
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stuu
Wed May 19, 2010 9:24 pm
Quick update:

My dad's friend whose a mechanic just looked at her there now. The car is leaking brake/clutch fluid and he said the fluid from the brake cylinder could be interferring with the engine. I'm not a mechanic so i didn't really understand but something to do with the leaking and air getting into it.
Stuu no chance brake fluid is related to the engine problem mate.

The only interaction could be from intake manifold to brake booster if there is an air leak on these. probably a cracked vacuum hose or cracked booster diaphragm.

Brake fluid loss is related to cylinder and calipers seals or leaking brake hoses...
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stuu
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alogaparaloga
Wed May 19, 2010 9:56 pm
Stuu no chance brake fluid is related to the engine problem mate.

The only interaction could be from intake manifold to brake booster if there is an air leak on these. probably a cracked vacuum hose or cracked booster diaphragm.

Brake fluid loss is related to cylinder and calipers seals or leaking brake hoses...
I was thinking that the brake fluid wouldn't be related. Where is the brake booster located or even the vacuum hose?
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stuu
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viffer
Wed May 19, 2010 9:55 pm
Another factor you might want to consider is your driving style. How heavy is your right foot? That's usually a consideration with low MPG. Could be chasing a fault that doesn't exist!
HTH
I drive very slowly as i couldnt afford to drive her hard seeing as i only get 16mpg! lol.
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alogaparaloga
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stuu
Wed May 19, 2010 10:09 pm
I was thinking that the brake fluid wouldn't be related. Where is the brake booster located or even the vacuum hose?
Brake booster is the drum or servo unit where master cylinder is bolted on.
The hose goes from the drum to the engine's plenum and it has a one way valve (plastic round bit on the hose) as well. So inspect the hose and the valve for cracks.

I don't believe that this is the problem so good to check it but stay focused on other things.

One more thing that I would like to share with you and I forgot to mention to Sax too is that I improved things on my car, by adding ground wires from the battery directly to the cylinder head, ignition coil and AFM unit near the potentiometer.
So make sure you check that grounds from chassis to battery are in good condition.
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stuu
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alogaparaloga
Wed May 19, 2010 11:40 pm
Brake booster is the drum or servo unit where master cylinder is bolted on.
The hose goes from the drum to the engine's plenum and it has a one way valve (plastic round bit on the hose) as well. So inspect the hose and the valve for cracks.

I don't believe that this is the problem so good to check it but stay focused on other things.

One more thing that I would like to share with you and I forgot to mention to Sax too is that I improved things on my car, by adding ground wires from the battery directly to the cylinder head, ignition coil and AFM unit near the potentiometer.
So make sure you check that grounds from chassis to battery are in good condition.
Thanks for the info, i will check the hose and valves.

I wouldn't know where to start how to check the grounds from the chassis to the battery are :( Is it a difficult job or one for the mechanic to check out?
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alogaparaloga
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Checking Ground is not difficult.at least the one that goes from chassis to the coil. There is one from chassis to transmition and I am not sure if there is one more from chassis to the plenum, at the bolt of the 1st runner.

What you do is to check if those naked cables are corroded or broken. Then you can replace them yourself with parts you can find from halfords or any motor spares shop. Just one nut at each end.

In my case I had a very thick gauge copper cable and I bought the ends from halfords. So I cut the cables to the desired length and crimped the ends.

The task is very easy and no special tools are rrequired. Just use a pair of pliers to crimp the ends.
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Karlos28
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Rip the whole injection crap off and put bike carbs on! :-) much faster much cooler and much better mpg! My I jection started to go the same way as yours, but I couldn't be arsed spending money on it. So got some bike carbs on and the power is much better a d I'm getting better mpg. I get about 300 ish to a tank, my fuel gauge is decked soi can't let it run right down but I take it to a quarter. So 300 miles to 3/4 a tank.. The engine it's self won't be the cause of the problem. And the lamba sensor is before the cat any way so the removal of the cat won't make a diffrence..
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alogaparaloga
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Karlos I am impressed mate. If your numbers are accurate you get 300miles with 41 lt of fuel which is about 33mpg.
I have no chance of going that good on my MPG with the KE-Jet. I think I have to push my budget to buy my ECU ASAP.
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Karlos28
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Yehh I kno I was amazed too! Although I'm pretty sure the main jet in the carbs is too small so it runs lean when higher up the revs or WOT. Which is what it is most of the time! I think it's just wot worse after changing the cam tho.
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stuu
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How much would bike carbs cost? I never thought it would be so difficult to source a 190E engine, their like hen's teeth in Northern Ireland!!
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stuu
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Okay so i have another possible engine, E300 diesel. Don't know if its a td. Is it a big job converting it seeing as mine is a petrol?
Edited by stuu, Sat May 22, 2010 11:39 pm.
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stuu
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Ok so I need a servo and a master brake cylinder for my 2.0L. Theres one on ebay for a 2.6 in good working order. Are they compatible, can i put a 2.6 servo/brake cylinder into mine?

Also, my cars emissions are reading great (0.50 - 1.00) but the multimeter is telling me the mixture % is 33 - 38% which is way to rich. Whats up with that?


Edited by stuu, Mon May 24, 2010 3:38 pm.
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alogaparaloga
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Regarding the brake servo, parts are compatible and it's actually a nice little upgrade. You can also take the front calipers from same car or from a 16V and move to vented disk setup with much better braking power too.
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stuu
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I looked at my servo and it fairly different from the one in the ebay ad:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MERCEDES-190E-2-6-COMPLETE-BRAKE-MASTER-CYLINDER-SERVO-/280510886848?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item414fc073c0
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