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New and considering a 2.5-16
Topic Started: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:39 pm (1,167 Views)
Sc00bysnack
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Hello from Cheshire.


With a keen interest in eighties german cars, namely mk1 and mk2 golf GTI's, I think it may be time to experience a vehicle on a different level. I'm not wanting or able to afford a sub 100k example but am interested in a vehicle that has been cared for as it's likely to be a long termer that will form part of a humble collection of cars with a twofold purpose - to thoroughly enjoy and to hopefully retain/gain value as a small investment if respected.

I have seen an interesting example http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/2111014.htm with supplementary information and photos provided by the owner following request. Thanks must go to Lewis 190e 2.5 16 for his wonderful buyers guide!

I've attached some additional photos showing the interior, engine, service history and further photos of the exterior.

The interior is in very good condition, everything electrical (switches, windows, sunroof ,gauges etc) works, the timer and outside temperature gauge LCD both have a small amount of leakage but they can clearly be read, I can take a photo of the dash area tomorrow and send this to you.

Many people have remarked how good the body work is, I've never had any welding done and I have never found any evidence of any carried out. There is no rust, I removed the rear arches when I bought the car and painted hammerite on them, and also did the jacking points. The car is always keep in the garage which I believe has maintained its condtion. I have a jack and I am very happy for you to inspect the underside etc.

The car drives superbly with no knocks, whines or unusual sounds.

The car has had 9 previous owners. The car has mainly been serviced by Mercedes Benz up to approx 90,000 and then Mercedes/German car specialists there after. I have alway had the car services at a Mercedes Specialist who mainly works with older Mercedes. I've changed some easy jobs myself and have always used geniune mercedes parts.

Posted Image

I did a lot of reasearch and looked at lots of cars before I bought this one. I still have the AA car data check from when I bought the car.

The car had AMG wheels when I bought it but I have the original grille, indicators and rear lights in the loft.



Would the number of previous owners put anyone off purchasing?

Any thoughts would be appreciated on this vehicle and just in general really regarding the purchase of a 2.5-16 for my intended purpose.

Regards,
Chris


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Neil
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Welcome :)

Regarding number of previous owners;
Wouldn't bother me as long as the current owner has had it a decent amount of time. 7 years is more than decent.
Looks like a good car, in the rarer shade of silver.
If you've fiddled with old VWs, you should find inspecting a 190E very easy and pleasant.
Go and take a look at it ;)

BTW, I for one love old Golfs. Feel free to post pics of 'em!
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CrysAk
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looks very nice ^^

as above, number of owners wouldnt bother me too much, esp considering there are some cars out there with few owners in terrible shape
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Marv
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looks like a good one and price is right for a decent one. Reminds me of my old 2.6, was exactley the same as that except for the grille.
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Snake
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That looks like a straight enough car and the price is right.. :D
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RobertE
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Welcome! I'd try both 2.3 and 2.5. If you have a history with decent Golfs (I've had a few Mark 2 valvers myself) then you might find a 2.3-16 instructive. It drives like a mad Brit special (which it is) whereas the 2.5 is much more like a Mercedes. Engine architecture suggests that the 2.5 might be more reliable, but I've never experienced any trouble with timing chains, which is the main difference.

But they behave very differently, because the 2.3 is more 'oversquare' than the 2.5. You can rev the bollocks off it (8,000) and it seems to me that 'the Mercedes timing chain' (standard for years and well tested) should not let go unless some prat has left oil/filter changes neglected.

The 2.3 is lighter, it revs higher, and the handling is pretty much the same across the pair. As for transmission, all the manuals both use the same gearbox, but the 2.3 auto is a bit of a lash-up, because of the engine characteristics.

The one you refer to seems perfectly OK, mind you, but do try the 2.3!
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CrysAk
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RobertE
Fri Oct 1, 2010 2:21 pm
Welcome! I'd try both 2.3 and 2.5. If you have a history with decent Golfs (I've had a few Mark 2 valvers myself) then you might find a 2.3-16 instructive. It drives like a mad Brit special (which it is) whereas the 2.5 is much more like a Mercedes. Engine architecture suggests that the 2.5 might be more reliable, but I've never experienced any trouble with timing chains, which is the main difference.

But they behave very differently, because the 2.3 is more 'oversquare' than the 2.5. You can rev the bollocks off it (8,000) and it seems to me that 'the Mercedes timing chain' (standard for years and well tested) should not let go unless some prat has left oil/filter changes neglected.

The 2.3 is lighter, it revs higher, and the handling is pretty much the same across the pair. As for transmission, all the manuals both use the same gearbox, but the 2.3 auto is a bit of a lash-up, because of the engine characteristics.

The one you refer to seems perfectly OK, mind you, but do try the 2.3!
and on that note *cough*

http://pistonheads.com/sales/1890753.htm

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Nathan
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RobertE
Fri Oct 1, 2010 2:21 pm
Welcome! I'd try both 2.3 and 2.5. If you have a history with decent Golfs (I've had a few Mark 2 valvers myself) then you might find a 2.3-16 instructive. It drives like a mad Brit special (which it is) whereas the 2.5 is much more like a Mercedes. Engine architecture suggests that the 2.5 might be more reliable, but I've never experienced any trouble with timing chains, which is the main difference.

But they behave very differently, because the 2.3 is more 'oversquare' than the 2.5. You can rev the bollocks off it (8,000) and it seems to me that 'the Mercedes timing chain' (standard for years and well tested) should not let go unless some prat has left oil/filter changes neglected.

The 2.3 is lighter, it revs higher, and the handling is pretty much the same across the pair. As for transmission, all the manuals both use the same gearbox, but the 2.3 auto is a bit of a lash-up, because of the engine characteristics.

The one you refer to seems perfectly OK, mind you, but do try the 2.3!
:blink: Are you sure about the rev limits Robert? I'm sure with each valver the rev limit got higher, with only the EVO's surpassing 8,000rpm?

Also let's not forget that the 2.5 has a useful extra 19 bhp.

Edited by Nathan, Fri Oct 1, 2010 9:46 pm.
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RobertE
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Yes agreed, Nathan, but the extra weight rather serves to cancel that out. It's the same power/weight ratio for either car, but I regard the 2.3 as being splendidly feral. And they will do 8,000. Believe me...
Edited by RobertE, Fri Oct 1, 2010 11:37 pm.
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stwat
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Hello and welcome Chris :)

That one seems to have been well looked after which is good. Shame about the lights and grill but they can easily be changed back. Also the wheels are nice but will be heavy compared to the original forged sportline wheels so will effect the cars handling and feel quite a bit.

As an example. When i first bought my 944 Turbo it had 911 cup 3 wheels on. I managed to track down some original forged 944 Turbo wheels and simply couldn't believe how light they were compared to the Cup 3's!! They absolutely transformed how the car felt and handled B)

I agree with Robert and you certainly should drive a 2.3 as well as a 2.5 to see which you prefer.
Edited by stwat, Sat Oct 2, 2010 12:47 am.
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Nathan
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Weight wise I struggle to think of much that is different (2.3 to 2.5). Engine but surely that can't be much? ASD but then later 2.3's had that.

Maybe its more to do with how there specced car to car rather than 2.3 to 2.5?

From personal experience I felt the difference (power wise), admittedly not huge but useful nonetheless. It shows more on paper than in the 'real world' and it's harder to gadge the older the car, or should I say 'the older the KE-jet gets'.

They are both raw engines but your right the 2.3 is 'feral'.

8,000 rpm? Are we talking with KE-jet intact?

Edited by Nathan, Sat Oct 2, 2010 12:53 am.
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RobertE
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A fair point, Nathan; rpm is limited by the fuel pump relay, which I have removed from Bertha as she has been fitted with full EFI and standalone. So, thus modified, a 2.3 will pull 8K. But, then again so might a 2.5, but the engine architecture might prove an obstacle. Bore/stroke ratio, etc...
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Sc00bysnack
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Thank you for the warm welcome and informative comments.

Like your style Chris. Have to admit that I have followed the progress of your 2.3 over time and been very impressed by the work you have done. I also think you're a damn fine photographer - love the images.

RobertE - I think it would be prudent to experience both the 2.3 and 2.5 versions and formulate a decision based on that. The 'feral' description for the 2.3 sounds very interesting. I run a V6 4motion golf day to day and have come to love the silky engine and torque, however the downside is that it has probably made me a touch lazy.

The astral silver 2.5 in the original post looks a straight and well cared for vehicle, however I cannot get past the fact that I would be the 11th owner and in light of my requirements of the vehicle in the longer term I don't think it's the one.

Oh yes, a further complication though not an unpleasant one! It's my birthday at the end of the month and today it has come to light that my uncle is intending to give me an XJ6 (X300) in Kingfisher Blue and in really beautiful condition. I now have a storage issue to resolve. If anybody knows of a workshop/lockup/barn in the Chester/North Wales area please let me know!
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Sc00bysnack
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One for Neil :)

Pretty much standard apart from full black leather interior.

The Mk1 currently resides in the garage. Putting it mildly it's a vehicle for honing bodywork skills! No pics but it has a 1.8l 16v installed and suspended on coilovers so in the dim and distant future when it is rebuilt it should provide great entertainment.

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1stMerc
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Beautiful Mk2 Scooby,i've always had a soft spot for them.Another iconic,well put together car.
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Sc00bysnack
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Thanks 1stMerc :) It is a great little car. Always makes me smile when I drive it.
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