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Cuts out first 5 minutes driving
Topic Started: Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:24 pm (828 Views)
Moomin
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Part of things
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1993/1.8/190e
Since having the car for a week, iv'e noticed, it takes about 6-8 turns to start up then just catch it's self and get going...then, first 5 mins driving it will cut out as soon as i come to a junction or stop (more so in cold weather).
So far the only thing ive altered is the mixture from a terrible 0.2 to 1.5. Is there any simple things i should check before i probe furthur?
When i got the car, the guy said he had fiddle with a little black adjuster cog on the throttle body (not sure what it was exactly) and tried putting back to where he thought it should be.
Used to idle at 800 but since the mixture was corrected it sits at 1,100.
Thanks in advance for any advice guys/gals! :D
Edited by Moomin, Sun Oct 31, 2010 1:25 pm.
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jeremy
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Too Far Gone To Help
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Welcome to the weird and wonderful world of KE Jetronic "before"

Not a great help I know , but someone will be along soon ........


Jeremy
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Rich27
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"before" "before" "before"

Shouldn`t have fiddled with it.

now you will have to carry a screwdriver and allen key to keep adjusting it.

Loosening the mix screw will make the idle rise
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Moomin
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Rich27
Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:20 pm
"before" "before" "before"

Shouldn`t have fiddled with it.

now you will have to carry a screwdriver and allen key to keep adjusting it.

Loosening the mix screw will make the idle rise
Wait...whut?
The mixture was changed professionally
The black cog was fiddled by the previous owner (is that the thing that should not have been fiddled with?)
Shud the mixture be lower than 1.5?
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Rich27
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The black cog bit you mean just tightens the accelerator cable, you could tighten that a little to see if it helps.
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bazfj40
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your idle speed of 800 is about right not 1000/1100 which is way to high , idle mixture should be about 1%, co level between 1600 to 1800 revs is about 5to7%, any good garage with a co meter should be able to set it for you, it sounds like the guy tried to set the tickover by adjusting the cable so obviously something is wrong, also if you look under the air filter from the drivers side you will see a brass screw with a slot in it connected to what i think is called a auxillary air device, turning this can change your tickover. hope this helps.
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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It sounds like when the last bloke played with the black cog he has tightened the cable too much

resulting that the clearance is unsuficient (I think 1 to 1.5mm) at the end of travel,

so that the linkage goes against the ICS (Idling Control Switch).

As bazfj40 says the idling at 1000-1100 is too high. That sounds like an induction leak.

Check all your vacuum pipes for slits and damage.

You should never fiddle with the screw settings as they are set by the factory

and it is very unlikely that they will turn themselves out of adjustment.

All you or a garage is doing by adjusting the mixture or idling screws is temporaraly getting rid of the symptom,

but not getting rid of the cause of the problem. ;)
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Moomin
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balamb37
Mon Nov 1, 2010 9:11 pm
It sounds like when the last bloke played with the black cog he has tightened the cable too much

resulting that the clearance is unsuficient (I think 1 to 1.5mm) at the end of travel,

so that the linkage goes against the ICS (Idling Control Switch).

As bazfj40 says the idling at 1000-1100 is too high. That sounds like an induction leak.

Check all your vacuum pipes for slits and damage.

You should never fiddle with the screw settings as they are set by the factory

and it is very unlikely that they will turn themselves out of adjustment.

All you or a garage is doing by adjusting the mixture or idling screws is temporaraly getting rid of the symptom,

but not getting rid of the cause of the problem. ;)
Mixture could have been changed in the past by previous owner. They pulled caravans with the car and fitted aftermarket cooling fans with various switches. They might have fiddled with other things too. But...im not sure...I was wondering about the idle switch. Had a look in the daylight...should the idle switch click in when you release the accelarator? (would make sense) Should it be adjusted so that it's only just making the contact?
Thanks for the advice everyone! ;)
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balamb37
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Hi,

If you have the Haynes number 3450 have a look at page 4B.6 at the bottom three pictures.

I think the play in the left pic should be about 1-1.5 mm.

And at that the switch should be fully depressed.

Hope that helps.
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Salar
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Salar Turk
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Rich27
Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:20 pm
"before" "before" "before"

Shouldn`t have fiddled with it.

now you will have to carry a screwdriver and allen key to keep adjusting it.

Loosening the mix screw will make the idle rise
Unfortunately Rich, I do not have these screws on mine, as I do like to regulate her rhythm myself :( I do remember my late 1988 had them and I enjoyed loosening and tightening them whenever a need stems ;)
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Moomin
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It's really got bad now! No matter whether the car is cold or sitting at 80•c
If I take my foot off the accelerator it just cuts out! Jumps for a while trying to save it's self but in the end it just cuts out! Doesn't help that it's p1ss1ng it down. Popped bonnet, no light and no coat and I'm 20 miles from home. Can't have a proper look at the moment.
EDIT: Just drove it home after slightly adjusting the throttle cable tension...didn't cut out once....idled at 800 without budging....no hunting revs...nothing.
Behaved well!
Any chance it could be caused by rain entering the air intake as it really was lashing it down...belt started squeeling at times too...rain as well or too slack?
Edited by Moomin, Tue Nov 2, 2010 11:13 pm.
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Moomin
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balamb37
Tue Nov 2, 2010 10:25 am
Hi,

If you have the Haynes number 3450 have a look at page 4B.6 at the bottom three pictures.

I think the play in the left pic should be about 1-1.5 mm.

And at that the switch should be fully depressed.

Hope that helps.
Thanks! Got a chance on my lunch break to read through the section in the Haynes manual. Big help! ;)
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Moomin
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Ok, managed to get it idling perfectly at 800, switch engages perfectly...cable keeps tenesion.
BUT...when i come to a stop after accelerating, the revs sink to 500/600 and bounce back up. If i try setting off in this period i stall it as i have not noticed the drop...also if i dry steer while it's at this point it cuts out. But it's not cutting out by it's self now.
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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What do you mean "the cable keeps tension", is that when the throttle is closed ?

as there should be a 1 to 2mm clearance in the position that is in the 'Haynes'

page 4B.6 bottom left picture, if not then the idling will be controlled by the throttle cable

and not by the the 'Idling switch' which it is meant to be.

Bearing in mind if it only cuts out when load is on the engine (ie. dry steering) then

you could also have a vacuum leak which I don't think you have as it would give you a high tickover.

But get that clearance 'spot on' first.
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stwat
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The ICV (Idle Control Valve) may be at fault here too. I don't think they are adjustable on yours but take it off and clean it out with WD40 and see if that helps. Also clean out the AFM (Air Flow Meter) under the plate as lots of crap can build up under there over time. You need to take the air filter lid off to get to the AFM. While you are there check that the plate is resting in the correct position and not catching around the edges at all.

There is lots of info on the AFM plate and how to adjust it pinned in the engine section. Also lots more info on the KE-Jet system too.
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Moomin
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balamb37
Wed Nov 3, 2010 10:34 pm
What do you mean "the cable keeps tension", is that when the throttle is closed ?

as there should be a 1 to 2mm clearance in the position that is in the 'Haynes'

page 4B.6 bottom left picture, if not then the idling will be controlled by the throttle cable

and not by the the 'Idling switch' which it is meant to be.

Bearing in mind if it only cuts out when load is on the engine (ie. dry steering) then

you could also have a vacuum leak which I don't think you have as it would give you a high tickover.

But get that clearance 'spot on' first.
Just meant that the cable when relaxed is not freeplaying too much....it depresses the idle switch but still has cable tension to a certain degree....not overly relaxed.

Had a play tonight trying to sort it...seems ok now...
idles at 800 no cutting out...now and again after accelerating it sinks to about 600 then straight back to 800 but does not cut out.
Fingers crossed i can drive smoothly for a while.
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Moomin
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stwat
Wed Nov 3, 2010 10:50 pm
The ICV (Idle Control Valve) may be at fault here too. I don't think they are adjustable on yours but take it off and clean it out with WD40 and see if that helps. Also clean out the AFM (Air Flow Meter) under the plate as lots of crap can build up under there over time. You need to take the air filter lid off to get to the AFM. While you are there check that the plate is resting in the correct position and not catching around the edges at all.

There is lots of info on the AFM plate and how to adjust it pinned in the engine section. Also lots more info on the KE-Jet system too.
I will do a general service as i ain't had a chance yet...it's dark when i go to work and dark when i come out....only day off is sunday....must get a headtorch ^o)
Thanks for the advice...i did go to check out the airfilter when first got the car but it's not as simple as the beetle....needed unbolted and i didn't have my toolbox with me.
Might take the car to work so i can have a look in my lunch break while it's daylight B)

Thanks for the helpful advice everyone...i just cant get my head round it...keep looking at it like it's an aircooled engine...then thinking....why the hell is there a rocker cover on top lmao
Need to drill it into my mind a little more! :-/
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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Looks like you have fixed the worst of it but take stwats' advice,

as a sticking plate could be giving you the bit of hesitation when taking your foot off the throttle.

Check the plate for centralization and cleanliness ;)
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Moomin
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balamb37
Thu Nov 4, 2010 12:19 pm
Looks like you have fixed the worst of it but take stwats' advice,

as a sticking plate could be giving you the bit of hesitation when taking your foot off the throttle.

Check the plate for centralization and cleanliness ;)
Yeh, it's running much better but it cut out twice this morning and struggles to start first time. I'm running a fireworks display for a local scout group tonight, and I know they have a flood lit court yard...so il take my tool box hehe ;)
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