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3 inch into 2inch
Topic Started: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:30 am (1,095 Views)
HRH-squidlips-III
Part of things
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hi guys,
got a mate with a 2 inch remus backbox exhaust i can have, just woundering what would performance and
sound be like compared to just leaving it standard
i,ve got a 2.5 16v with i think factory exhaust
thanks in advance dan
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stwat
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Performance may well be restricted if you go down from 3" to 2".

The factory backbox is a very good one and is stainless steel so I would see a change to a remus with smaller tubing as a downgrade.
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gibpetrolhead
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stwat
Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:38 am
Performance may well be restricted if you go down from 3" to 2".

The factory backbox is a very good one and is stainless steel so I would see a change to a remus with smaller tubing as a downgrade.
Didn't know it was stainless Stu. :$
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Nathan
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I'm quite sure the factory backbox isn't stainless steel.

Anyway, wait until you find a correct Remus backbox. Doubt it will add much if anything performance wise, defently won't loose you any. It will sound epic though.

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iggy
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i would expect youd need a complete free flowing exhaust system not just a back box,
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alogaparaloga
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remus or whatever the make, is a small pipe diameter that will act as a restrictor on a 2.3 or 2.5 16valve.
the minimum diameter pipe you can have in your car should be same as the collector after the downpipes and that should be around 2.25 and 2.5 inch.
anything less and you are looking for some long term trouble as this is possible to increase exhaust system temperatures and will also reduce the engine performance.
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stwat
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Nathan
Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:11 am
I'm quite sure the factory backbox isn't stainless steel.

Anyway, wait until you find a correct Remus backbox. Doubt it will add much if anything performance wise, defently won't loose you any. It will sound epic though.

The box is stainless steel, sadly the pipes or the rest of the system aren't. The two original ones I had when I had my 2.3 valver were anyway.
Edited by stwat, Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:02 pm.
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Nathan
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alogaparaloga
Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:47 pm
remus or whatever the make, is a small pipe diameter that will act as a restrictor on a 2.3 or 2.5 16valve.
the minimum diameter pipe you can have in your car should be same as the collector after the downpipes and that should be around 2.25 and 2.5 inch.
anything less and you are looking for some long term trouble as this is possible to increase exhaust system temperatures and will also reduce the engine performance.
:rolleyes:

Like I said before, it depends on the type of Remus box you get. Like any part, you need to get the correct one for your model of 190.

My Remus backbox is made for the 2.5-16. The rear pipe is the same diameter as oem and the tail pipes are larger than oem. The backbox isn't restrictive in any way.

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Nathan
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stwat
Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:58 pm
Nathan
Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:11 am
I'm quite sure the factory backbox isn't stainless steel.

Anyway, wait until you find a correct Remus backbox. Doubt it will add much if anything performance wise, defently won't loose you any. It will sound epic though.

The box is stainless steel, sadly the pipes or the rest of the system aren't. The two original ones I had when I had my 2.3 valver were anyway.
Intresting Stu, can you remember the make?

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stwat
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Not sure who made them but they had the MB star on and the new one I fitted had both the star and an MB sticker.

The old one is out in the yard i'l take a pic when I get a chance.
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HRH-squidlips-III
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thanks for the advice guys much appericated the inlet pipe on the back box is 2" so i suppose this is to much of a difference
not willing to sacrifice performance for a better sound
from your experience nathan has adding the remus only bettered the sound (if so how much) or performance also
dan
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Nathan
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Hi Dan, it's hard to say if the backbox did anything performance wise as I fitted it at the same time as a head refresh. Sound wise is very nice. I will try to get a video up asap.

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stwat
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The original back box is made by Eberspacher. I did take some pics but they didn't turn out any good unfortunately.

The box is definitely stainless but painted black and the pipes are mild which is a stupid design as it's always the pipes that rust through, as on my old one.
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alogaparaloga
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Nathan
Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:16 pm
alogaparaloga
Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:47 pm
remus or whatever the make, is a small pipe diameter that will act as a restrictor on a 2.3 or 2.5 16valve.
the minimum diameter pipe you can have in your car should be same as the collector after the downpipes and that should be around 2.25 and 2.5 inch.
anything less and you are looking for some long term trouble as this is possible to increase exhaust system temperatures and will also reduce the engine performance.
:rolleyes:

Like I said before, it depends on the type of Remus box you get. Like any part, you need to get the correct one for your model of 190.

My Remus backbox is made for the 2.5-16. The rear pipe is the same diameter as oem and the tail pipes are larger than oem. The backbox isn't restrictive in any way.

Nathan, you did not understand my point mate.

You have a back box which has a single 2" pipe. and you put it on a car that originally has a bigger size pipe. So you apply a flow restriction.
I think that it's clear that this is a downgrade.

On top of that, 2" exhaust systems are used on 8 valve models from mercedes as standard.
I don't think that your remus box is 2" OD single inlet and suits any of the 16 valve engines for the 190.
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Nathan
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I have highlighted some bits to help you.

Quote:
 
Like I said before, it depends on the type of Remus box you get. Like any part, you need to get the correct one for your model of 190.

My Remus backbox is made for the 2.5-16. The rear pipe is the same diameter as oem and the tail pipes are larger than oem. The backbox isn't restrictive in any way.
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alogaparaloga
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I Have seen what you typed and I totally understand that your back box was designed for a 16V . My question though is
1) Is the OEM size for the 16V 2" ???? (I don't think so)
2) Is the back box that Dan has/will put on his valver, same as yours???
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Nathan
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alogaparaloga
Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:42 pm
1) Is the OEM size for the 16V 2" ???? (I don't think so)
2) Is the back box that Dan has/will put on his valver, same as yours???
No and no.

Dan has been offered a Remus backbox for (I guess) a 1.8/2.0 190. I'm saying Dan should look out for a 2.5-16 Remus backbox like mine.

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gibpetrolhead
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stwat
Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:03 pm
The original back box is made by Eberspacher. I did take some pics but they didn't turn out any good unfortunately.

The box is definitely stainless but painted black and the pipes are mild which is a stupid design as it's always the pipes that rust through, as on my old one.
How does that work from a manufacturing processes point of view welding mild steel to stainless?.
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alogaparaloga
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Very very easy thing to be done

Usually mig welded. and mild to 3XX series stainless is welded by using 309LSi wire.
Also manufacturing lines have better access to special wires for mig etc and quite advanced welding methods.
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stwat
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Yes very easy to do. It is not recommended on any parts that will take any stresses as the breaking points for both metals are very different but perfectly fine for parts such as exhaust systems.

But bloody stupid in my opinion. Why bother to make the box out of stainless but then make the tubing from mild which will rust and fail? feckknows
Edited by stwat, Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:24 am.
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gibpetrolhead
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stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:17 am
Yes very easy to do. It is not recommended on any parts that will take any stresses as the breaking points for both metals is very different but perfectly fine for parts such as exhaust systems.

But bloody stupid in my opinion. Why bother to make the box out of stainless but then make the tubing from mild which will rust and fail? feckknows
Yes its sounds quite dumb, I think the reason was the water sat in the back box rather than the pipe and therefore its stainless. feckknows
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stwat
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gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:24 am
stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:17 am
Yes very easy to do. It is not recommended on any parts that will take any stresses as the breaking points for both metals is very different but perfectly fine for parts such as exhaust systems.

But bloody stupid in my opinion. Why bother to make the box out of stainless but then make the tubing from mild which will rust and fail? feckknows
Yes its sounds quite dumb, I think the reason was the water sat in the back box rather than the pipe and therefore its stainless. feckknows
Yes that makes sense. Still a shame they weren't full stainless but then stainless is't exactly cheap.

The back box on mine lasted 22 years until the joint to it sprang a leak!! So can't really complain with that to be honest!
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gibpetrolhead
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stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:28 am
gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:24 am
stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:17 am
Yes very easy to do. It is not recommended on any parts that will take any stresses as the breaking points for both metals is very different but perfectly fine for parts such as exhaust systems.

But bloody stupid in my opinion. Why bother to make the box out of stainless but then make the tubing from mild which will rust and fail? feckknows
Yes its sounds quite dumb, I think the reason was the water sat in the back box rather than the pipe and therefore its stainless. feckknows
Yes that makes sense. Still a shame they weren't full stainless but then stainless is't exactly cheap.

The back box on mine lasted 22 years until the joint to it sprang a leak!! So can't really complain with that to be honest!
You'll not find any exhaust lasting 22 years these day's. B)
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stwat
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gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:31 am
stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:28 am
gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:24 am
stwat
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:17 am
Yes very easy to do. It is not recommended on any parts that will take any stresses as the breaking points for both metals is very different but perfectly fine for parts such as exhaust systems.

But bloody stupid in my opinion. Why bother to make the box out of stainless but then make the tubing from mild which will rust and fail? feckknows
Yes its sounds quite dumb, I think the reason was the water sat in the back box rather than the pipe and therefore its stainless. feckknows
Yes that makes sense. Still a shame they weren't full stainless but then stainless is't exactly cheap.

The back box on mine lasted 22 years until the joint to it sprang a leak!! So can't really complain with that to be honest!
You'll not find any exhaust lasting 22 years these day's. B)
Certainly not! They seem designed to fail not long after the warranty runs out these days :no:

Every merc I have ever owned seemed to have it's original exhaust system still in place.

I wonder how long they last on newer mercs from the mid 90's onwards?
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
the stainless isnt welded on the mb exhaust systems at least not the couple ive seen, they are (i cant remember the exact term) seamed by rolling. only the mild steal bits are welded
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eric78
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gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:04 am
stwat
Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:03 pm
The original back box is made by Eberspacher. I did take some pics but they didn't turn out any good unfortunately.

The box is definitely stainless but painted black and the pipes are mild which is a stupid design as it's always the pipes that rust through, as on my old one.
How does that work from a manufacturing processes point of view welding mild steel to stainless?.
In welding class at technical college we were told that welding stainless to mild steel was a no no but the engineering department at work do it all the time & it seems to work fine.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
dunno if mb changed the manufacturer but like with many mb parts now the new ones are not as good quality as the old or old new stock around...sometimes worth refurbing the old part and re using it!
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gibpetrolhead
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eric78
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:32 pm
gibpetrolhead
Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:04 am
stwat
Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:03 pm
The original back box is made by Eberspacher. I did take some pics but they didn't turn out any good unfortunately.

The box is definitely stainless but painted black and the pipes are mild which is a stupid design as it's always the pipes that rust through, as on my old one.
How does that work from a manufacturing processes point of view welding mild steel to stainless?.
In welding class at technical college we were told that welding stainless to mild steel was a no no but the engineering department at work do it all the time & it seems to work fine.
This is what I was told when I learnt to weld, that it was a no no. :'( But I don't think that it can take large stress loads.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
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stainless to mild steel
Use 309L wire with Argon + 2.5% CO2

taken from a few forums so can be done
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gibpetrolhead
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cossie connoisseur
Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:24 pm
stainless to mild steel
Use 309L wire with Argon + 2.5% CO2

taken from a few forums so can be done
The technology must be in the type of wire used.
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cossie connoisseur
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there can be only one ;-)
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
yeah stainless wire not mild steel wire, makes all the difference apparently....and low co2 level :)
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