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Ignition Timing Distributor Cap Help
Topic Started: Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:10 pm (3,215 Views)
barretts02
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Hello, I'm changing over all the HT leads and distributor cap but now i'm stuck at this stage.

What order do the HT leads go? I know its 1-3-4-2 but where does 1 start?

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg832/scaled.php?server=832&filename=imag0419t.jpg&res=landing

Am I right in thinking that 1 is bottom right in the photo going clockwise? I really can't remember. Thought I made a note of it but I guess not. :(
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barretts02
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found the answer to it by doing a bit more searching.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/6523493/1/

Glad to hear i'm not the only stupid one!
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barretts02
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Seems that there were quite a few, well 2, different HT lead layouts. went scrabbling through my garage to find the old distributor cap and sure enough I still had it! and the previous owner had written the plug layouts on it. 1 was bottom right for my engine (2.3-16) if any one in the future needs help with this.
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rhysmangatmotorsport
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Mangatmotorsport
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easy way to change HT leads is to do one at a time and not pull them all off in one go.
what engine your 190 got?
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barretts02
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2.3 16 valve.
Still can't get it to start. Valve timing is right and when I take the spark plugs out I smell petrol and I've definitely got a spark.
I'll get a timing gun on spark plug 1 (or what I think is number 1) and see if its firing at TDC +/- 2 degrees..I think.. i'll check up on that, i've read it in one of these books i've got on the car.
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JustbeCoz
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I thought 1 was at roughly top right as you look from front of car and 3 4 2 running anticlockwise from it.
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barretts02
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JustbeCoz
Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:23 pm
I thought 1 was at roughly top right as you look from front of car and 3 4 2 running anticlockwise from it.
ah right, thanks - i'll try that. Can't remember what way the rotor arm moves around, i'll take the distributor off and have a look. Just assumed it was clockwise from a book I read but I could well be remembering that wrong.

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barretts02
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Thanks for everyones help, engine started up (reluctantly) and then settled down to a nice idle so I still need to tweak the distributor. Is it possible to actually see the timing marks on the bottom pulley when the belt is on? Had a look and theres too much belt and other bits of car in the way.
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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Not sure what engine you have but I got a 'Strobe' on my 2Ltr Auto to check mine ;)
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Gerry Lloyd
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Monsieur
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I can't get the image uploader to work so you can copy and paste:

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/1958/scan0001fw.jpg
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MoCar
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barretts02
Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:58 pm
Thanks for everyones help, engine started up (reluctantly) and then settled down to a nice idle so I still need to tweak the distributor. Is it possible to actually see the timing marks on the bottom pulley when the belt is on? Had a look and theres too much belt and other bits of car in the way.
Morning

If you've got a fair bit of tinkering to do the one thing I find a big help on my 2.3-16 was removing the fan cowl... it just makes everything a bit easier to get to.

Hope it helps!
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barretts02
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MoCar
Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:02 am
If you've got a fair bit of tinkering to do the one thing I find a big help on my 2.3-16 was removing the fan cowl... it just makes everything a bit easier to get to.

Hope it helps!
I'll have a go at that then.

At cranking speed i've got a figure of about 2 degrees before TDC and at idle about 19 before TDC from a snap-on 1991 databook. Seem about right to people?

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JustbeCoz
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Afaik there is no need to rotate distributor as the timimg is controlled by the ignition control unit. The distributor does no more than pass the spark around the different cylinders. Unless you have rotated the distributor a really long way or removed it and replaced with the helical gear shaft on the wrong tooth it should not affect anything. The width of the end contact of the rotor arm allows the spark to be fed to the right lead contact whether the ignition module has fully retarded or advanced the ignition.
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barretts02
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I think when I was replacing the timing chain I must have jumped a few teeth on the distributor. Initially it was firing but stalled as soon as i let go of the key. moved the distributor cap around and it made it a bit better but wouldn't go above 2000, moved it a bit more and it started slightly easier and ran fine. I'm hoping moving it around a bit more will make it start slightly better. perhaps the chain slipped around quite a way but yeah, you shouldn't need to adjust it - or so I thought.
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balamb37
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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I think in your case I would be inclined to check that the timing marks (TDC on the CS Pulley and also on the Camshaft sprocket ) are correctly lined up. ;)
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barretts02
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The engine timing is fine, unless it's since jumped some teeth - it was set up perfect. I had some difficulties in replacing the chain and the tensioner so during that time the rotor arm could well have moved independently of the chain, but I made sure that the camshafts were dead on.

Haven't checked the clearances between the lobes on the camshaft and the buckets, i'll do that at some point.

The ignition control unit retards the spark when its running but what about when its cranking?
The running part is now fine, its just the getting it to run part thats awkward.

I'll check the valve timing though. good point.

Thanks for everyones help so far, I'm sure i'll need more of it!
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JustbeCoz
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if engine timing ok then check turn engine until no 1 piston at tdc on firing stroke and remove distributor cap and see where the rotor arm is pointing. should be pointing at no 1 pole. If you can't achieve this by rotating distributor onbolt the clamp and remove distributor and turn helical gear one tooth and reinsert until position is right. Sounds like the rotor is near enough for the spark to jump in only the advance position and not at idle. engine should only be turned in normal direction for running when lining up timing or chain play will cause errors.
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barretts02
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when I said it got better as I rotated the distributor it turns out it doesn't really make much difference as you said. seems it was just getting hotter which made it start better :$ feeling fairly stupid again :P

I took of the air filter and got someone else to try and start it, if I push down ever so slightly on the flap (it might have a proper technical name, for now it's called the "flap") underneath right as it's being cranked it starts up absolutely fine. still doesn't want to pick up RPM when its cold though, is this sounding more like a cold start/5th injector problem?

I've also found 2 wires that are snapped off and another thicker black wire that has also snapped off. :-/ both near the front of the engine. I'll look more into those as a cause of my problem!
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Gerry Lloyd
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Monsieur
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- duplicate - unknown web error
Edited by Gerry Lloyd, Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:09 pm.
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Gerry Lloyd
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Monsieur
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Gerry Lloyd
Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:01 pm
barretts02
Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:11 pm
when I said it got better as I rotated the distributor it turns out it doesn't really make much difference as you said. seems it was just getting hotter which made it start better :$ feeling fairly stupid again :P

I took of the air filter and got someone else to try and start it, if I push down ever so slightly on the flap (it might have a proper technical name, for now it's called the "flap") underneath right as it's being cranked it starts up absolutely fine. still doesn't want to pick up RPM when its cold though, is this sounding more like a cold start/5th injector problem?

I've also found 2 wires that are snapped off and another thicker black wire that has also snapped off. :-/ both near the front of the engine. I'll look more into those as a cause of my problem!
That's right...when you rotate the distributor clockwise it will retard the ignition timing and the engine will run hotter. When you have it running properly again the best place for the distributor will be more toward advancement so that the engine runs cool but you don't hear any pinking on hills.

The position of that afm flap is adjustable. I posted an image recently and will get the link for you.
http://s13.postimage.org/z4ord5gqf/labelled.jpg - insert screwdriver down tube labelled orange. Depress screw at its base and turn clockwise for richer mixture.

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