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| 1.8 Head Skim discovery; Larger Valves?! Please shed some light...? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Thu May 3, 2012 11:42 am (1,794 Views) | |
| OneNineTee | Thu May 3, 2012 11:42 am Post #1 |
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Greetings, I am no engine expert so please bear with me.... I have sent my Daily Driver 96,000mile 1.8 1993 Auto off to my mechanic Boyan for Timing Chain tensioner and chain replacement, Valve stem seals, Head gasket replacement and a head skim - the aim was to gain another 100,000miles out of the old beaut, I shall do my best to breach 200,000miles! I wanted to get this done, even though my car was running fine following regular servicing throughout my ownership. Anyway he has just sent me a picture of the lovely new skimmed head, and followed that text by informing me that somebody at some point has put larger valves into the engine (certainly not me! I've owned her for coming up three years) I understand there is more power to be had from doing this - is this correct, and if so why is it not a popular mod? Would it affect Fule economy - as I feel the more power, the less juice friendly it becomes. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I hope to learn a few new bits here |
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| Will | Thu May 3, 2012 12:13 pm Post #2 |
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How does he know that the valves are larger - what makes him suggest that? I would personally be very surprised. FWIW, I'm pretty sure the 1.8 and 2.0 heads and valvegear are the same
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| OneNineTee | Thu May 3, 2012 12:24 pm Post #3 |
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Yes I trust Boyan with his 190e knowledge, the first time he did some work for me I watched him fashion out a Ball Joint press out of exhaust mountings, he also had a garage full of 190e spares which was like a Goldmine for me...his knowledge and help has assisted in keeping my 190e running at tip top condition, and at £25 an hour because of all the recommendations i've sent him I know full well he knows what he is talking about. We drew up a list of parts and have purchased all the required parts, and as mentioned he has been keeping me updated with progress - is it that hard to spot the difference in valve sizes? Once again, I am no engine expert and would have no idea where to begin, however as Will mentions I assume that alot of the parts used on the 1.8s and 2.0 are exactly the same. he is replacing the valve stem seals, maybe this is how he has spotted the difference? Either way, bit perplexed as to what/who may of done that? Replacing valves isn't normal for a car under 75,000miles (purchase mileage) is it? I can also confirm the chap who owned it before me used it as a Cruiser to Cornwall and Back at Weekends, so its unlikely he was ever in the market for sporty engine upgrades and power increases lol Its not costing me anymore, I'd just like to know what gains could of been had. I did like to think my 1.8 Auto was pulling well, It had no problem making it to 120mph, although I have decated the Exhaust and fitted a K&N which must of helped? (ON MY PRIVATE RUNWAY OFCOURSE) Edited by OneNineTee, Thu May 3, 2012 12:26 pm.
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| Will | Thu May 3, 2012 12:31 pm Post #4 |
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That's what I was getting at - it's most unlikely (although obviously not impossible!), for someone to have bothered doing anything like that, especially as you say on a car of that type and mileage. Find out what makes Boyan say that someone has put larger valves in the engine - details/size/pics? He must have said it for a reason? ![]() Will help clarify what's going on! ![]() |
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| Matt | Thu May 3, 2012 12:33 pm Post #5 |
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Larger valves? Sounds a bit far fetched to me. Compare measurements between standard and said valves. |
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| OneNineTee | Thu May 3, 2012 12:43 pm Post #6 |
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Will do lads, he always likes to hit me with a report of how everything went... Anyway here are some Skim pics for all you Mechgeeks out there.: Pre Skim ![]() Post Skim ...Mmmm Shiny! ![]() This excites my loins very much. I expect my Steel horse to be purring like a warm kitten when I get her back, there was a little chain slap at ignition on colder days. |
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| Will | Thu May 3, 2012 2:30 pm Post #7 |
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Looks pretty normal from here but hard to tell from a photo on my phone screen :-) What size valves are fitted then? And what does he think the normal size would be ![]() Genuinely interested, but I suspect that they are standard
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| Matt | Thu May 3, 2012 2:39 pm Post #8 |
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Was the head warped then to require the skim in the first place? |
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| OneNineTee | Thu May 3, 2012 3:55 pm Post #9 |
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No, the head is only having a light skim - No warping or over heating at all. Main reason for all of this work was the timing chain, and leaky Rocker Cover gasket.... I have realised that my 190e was owned and utilised as a Demo car from 93-96 at Jacksons of Poole... I do wonder if they might have had something to do with it? I will keep you posted after an update from Boyan! |
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| iggy | Thu May 3, 2012 8:09 pm Post #10 |
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ive had the head chemically cleaned skimmed polished ported, new timing chain plus tensioner, valve stem seals, valves ground in, new injectors and seals, new hydraulic lifters on my 2.6, whether your engine has bigger valves or not you will be well happy with it after its been put back together itl be alot more responsive and lively to drive, i dont no about the other 190 engines but ive read some where that the inlet side of the 2.6 lets it down if id have known this before i had the work done on mine id have had slightly bigger inlet valves and the inlet manifold matched or opened out to the head, what gains id have got i dont no, |
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| alogaparaloga | Fri May 4, 2012 2:30 pm Post #11 |
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Head looks to me just normal with standard valve sizes. 1.8 & 2.0 heads are the same, and valves are 43mm inlet 39mm exhaust. They are big compared to other cars of the same era but see that as potential for power improvement with the correct inlet and exhaust custom manifolds. |
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| OneNineTee | Fri May 4, 2012 5:00 pm Post #12 |
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Thanks for all your replys lads. Once again to highlight, Boyan knows these cars like the back of his hand. He only needed to look at the head to see the valves were bigger, and after a brief phonecall with him he has mentioned that they are most definatly bigger, and descibed to me that the valves MATCH the size of the inlet. I'm about 5minutes away from contacting Jacksons of Poole, Dorset who originally sold the car - our guess is that this work was done very early in the cars life to help power up the 1.8 (mine was being used as a demonstration car for 3years!) ? More pics and updates to follow! |
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| Matt | Fri May 4, 2012 5:04 pm Post #13 |
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So what are the sizes of the inlet and the exhaust valves on yours then? has he not measured them?
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| Neil | Fri May 4, 2012 5:36 pm Post #14 |
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Cue impending Class-Action Lawsuit..."If you were fraudulently sold a Mercedes-Benz 190E 1.8 based on the stellar performance of a demonstrator car between the following dates, please call this number immediately!" |
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| Will | Fri May 4, 2012 6:45 pm Post #15 |
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Just measure the bloody valves, lol! ![]() I wouldn't bother ringing up the original dealer, there's no way they are going to care or be able to help ![]() Boyan might well be handy with the spanners, but it's silly to make claims about the valves without measuring anything first?
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| Matt | Fri May 4, 2012 7:20 pm Post #16 |
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![]() adult image hosting |
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| jimbojones | Tue May 8, 2012 3:09 pm Post #17 |
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you'll get 200,000 miles no problem, my 1.8 has 326,000 on it now, original head, manifolds, clutch, transmission pretty much K-Jet and suspension is the only thing i've had problems with! |
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| Matt | Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 pm Post #18 |
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So what's the latest on this 'dealer special' then? Has this guy managed to find a calliper yet and get some measurements? |
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| Will | Thu May 10, 2012 7:13 pm Post #19 |
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Bump! |
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| aemt | Mon May 14, 2012 11:12 am Post #20 |
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Would be good to get an answer on this one. |
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| Matt | Mon May 14, 2012 11:43 am Post #21 |
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Would appear someone doesn't want to answer. Should we assume the valves were infact standard size all along and there is no super dealer fraudulent sales special? |
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| OneNineTee | Mon May 14, 2012 12:55 pm Post #22 |
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Hi thanks for your ever positive comments. If I was a mechanic who was capable of removing the head, and measuring the valves/inlet I would have answered by now and would of attempted the job myself - I am not the guy doing the work and therefore cannot provide specific measurements... I am just an enthusiast that wants to learn more about his Car. I put up this topic having been informed that the Valves were bigger (even I suggested the Valve Stem Seals could be the wrong size) - turns out after a quick phonecall some days later that someone along the way has ported the head so that the inlet matches, so yes the Valve Stem Seals were wrong, as was my mechanic. Could the resident mechanical experts shed some light on this for me? I'd love to learn more about why this may have been done, as previously mentioned the last two owners have been elderly, and wouldn't of bothered doing this work to the engine themselves. Its not unheard of for Car Manufactures to hand the press an even faster than factory road going version to impress, and it makes sense that after demonstrating with the car for 1.5years it would need servicing,etc so perhaps Jacksons of Poole did it to play with it, or to help sell 190es? Who knows? All I know is I am excited to be collecting my car this week after some uncertain evenings scratching my head about my engines history! And thanks Jimbo, good to know it should be money well spent looking forward. Made me even more excited reading those numbers 3-2-6....CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. I am also having the Front Bumper impact strip replaced, and have some Disc brakes on order. It's all upgrades over here! Matt - it's not that I didn't want to answer. It's just that a) I was out enjoying my weekend and b) I like keeping helpful admin waiting c) I was just providing you with the information available to me at the time. Edited by OneNineTee, Mon May 14, 2012 12:56 pm.
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| Will | Mon May 14, 2012 1:29 pm Post #23 |
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Looks/sounds like it was (is!) a bone stock M102 1.8 head to me ![]() It's far more likely that Boyan is wrong than MB modifying cylinder heads on a bottom-of-the-range 1.8 190E No harm done, but it all sounded a bit silly from the beginning if I am honest
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| OneNineTee | Mon May 14, 2012 1:34 pm Post #24 |
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Will, I refer you to point C) |
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| jimbojones | Mon May 14, 2012 3:32 pm Post #25 |
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Careful there Will, you could offend some of the gerils... We're all bottom-of-the-range... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnYoFmBagmk |
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| OneNineTee | Mon May 14, 2012 4:59 pm Post #26 |
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Aha! Go on! Go on...... Surely an A-Reg Carb is bottom of the range? We're 2.0's handsome, less weighty and more efficient brother! |
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| jimbojones | Mon May 14, 2012 5:59 pm Post #27 |
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Emphasis on the handsome, nothing uglier than a 2.0.... eugh
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| Will | Mon May 14, 2012 6:15 pm Post #28 |
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The 1.8 was the bottom-of-the range in 1993... ![]() Nothing wrong with that of course - but it is all extremely unlikely that anyone (let alone a Mercedes-Benz main dealer...) would bother to re-engineer the cylinder head of a bog-standard 1.8 M102 engine to fit larger valves. Sure, you say that you were just passing on information - and I don't think anyone was 'shooting the messenger', but being that you're the only one able to speak to the source of said information it is down to you to verify the facts. If Boyan cannot prove that the cylinder head, valve seats, valves etc have all been modified or replaced, I think you are just going to have to accept that what you have is just a standard MB cylinder head ![]() No offence intended, just being realistic
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| Ahmed | Tue May 15, 2012 1:02 pm Post #29 |
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Your in good hands with Boyan, he is deff the best 190 mechanic around in this part of the world, he has been looking after my dad's cream 190 for quite some time and always knows what he is doing :-) |
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| Ahmed | Tue May 15, 2012 1:06 pm Post #30 |
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Your in good hands with Boyan, he is deff the best 190 mechanic around in this part of the world, he has been looking after my dad's cream 190 for quite some time and always knows what he is doing :-) |
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| cossie connoisseur | Tue May 15, 2012 5:43 pm Post #31 |
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there can be only one ;-)
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thing is us mechanics on here would just say use a vernier gauge and compare the size of the valves to the original specifications :-) no harm in 'playing' with a 1.8 engine as people mess around with 1.2 corsa's and fiesta's after all but one thing for sure a mercedes main dealer's will not waste time or money doing those sort of engine mods to a car because a) its a demo car and demo cars need to represent what people order, and b) the accountants would be very **insert swear word here**ed off by such a project :-) |
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Cue impending Class-Action Lawsuit...

8:36 PM Jul 11