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Any 5-speed Autos swap into a 190E? (probably a silly question, but thought I'd ask)
Topic Started: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:18 am (3,074 Views)
tom_kauf
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Are there any 5 speed Autos that'd fit into a 190E? I've never heard of any, so probably a silly question.

I'm getting my transmission replaced soon, since my 4 Speed Auto (722 400) has 284,000km (176,000 miles) and is well worn.

I have a pretty quiet car, but on the highway (at 100kmh/60mph) it'd be nice if it dropped down another gear. The engine revs sit around 3000rpm at that speed so it's not exactly quiet. Wind noise and road noise is low, but engine noise is the loudest thing.

And I'm not looking to do a Manual swap, I like my Auto B) .
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frankmartin
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I'm not pretty sure but if i'm not wrong the m111 has and option for the 5 speed auto. Somewhere i read that you can botl directly the manual transmission of our 190 to the m111 engine. For logic you can bolt the automatic 5 speed transmission to your m 102.
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hvs304
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Sorry I cant help much except that I've heard the 5 speed Merc auto box can be quite troublesome compared to the reliable 190 4 speeder, I also wouldn't expect a 190 auto box to be well worn at 176k. Maybe the box just needs a service.

I must admit when I first got my auto 190e it felt like it needed a higher top gear but the engine is always silent at 3000rpm with just normal wind and road noise making any sound.
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ConorD
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Hi Tom,
I've started measures to make mine quieter too and thinking of ways of getting the revs down @ 60 mph and above.

Kind of on a tangent, but have you (or anyone else!) considered fitting an aftermarket overdrive to achieve the same ends? http://www.overdrives.co.uk/ do them for Royce, Bentley and Range Rover but I don't know of anyone doing them specifically for the Benzes

It'd help with fuel economy too I'd say. ;)

Best Regards,
ConorD
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tom_kauf
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Cool, thanks guys :). I'll look into the m111. A direct bolt-on would be ideal.

Oh, ok. I hadn't heard that Merc's 5 speeds are more troublesome. I'll have to consider that, thanks. My auto box has had fluid (incl torque converter) and filter changes in the time I've owned it, but maybe an overhaul is needed.
My engine isn't exactly screaming at 3000rpm, but just like any engine (and exhaust), the noise is lower at lower RPMs.
I've probably made my car too quiet in other areas, now the engine and exhaust noise stands out lol. I got a full set of new (OEM) door and window seals a few years ago. And when I swapped my interior from blue cloth to a black sportline leather, I covered every square cm of the interior in SecondSkin (similar to Dynamat).

Hmm, an overdrive sounds like a good idea :). No, I hadn't considered that. Would be interesting if anyone had done an install. I'm sure it's cheaper too.

Edited by tom_kauf, Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:37 pm.
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eagle3
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The 2.6 and 2.5D have a longer final drive diff, but all gears will be longer. Not sure it's good to mess with that. You might find it changing down more often to compensate for the lack of torque. The real speed will be higher than that showing on the speedometer too.

Edited by eagle3, Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:52 pm.
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stwat
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I thought the 5 speed auto's had all sorts of electric gubbins. I very much doubt you could simply bolt one up.
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frankmartin
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I searched through the net, i read them some times ago but i remember what to search.
Is not the proper answer to your question but is a good starting point.
Follow me. if you can bolt the m111 to the manual transmission of the m102, and you can change from auto to manual of the m111, why you can't change the auto from the m102 to the auto of the m111? For me it's logic but i'm not really sure about it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190-class/1351731-engine-swap-question.html

http://www.tomant.net/EN/merc/2011.php

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w124-e-ce-d-td-class/1659904-722-4-tranny-swap-gas-diesel.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_C-Class

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G-TRONIC

the 722.5 is an evolution of the 722,4 as far as i know. hydraulically shifted from the 1st to 4th and the 5th is eletronically shifted. but as stwat said the 5th gear was weak.
Edited by frankmartin, Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:50 am.
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Marty
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frankmartin
Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:25 am
I searched through the net, i read them some times ago but i remember what to search.
Is not the proper answer to your question but is a good starting point.
Follow me. if you can bolt the m111 to the manual transmission of the m102, and you can change from auto to manual of the m111, why you can't change the auto from the m102 to the auto of the m111? For me it's logic but i'm not really sure about it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190-class/1351731-engine-swap-question.html

http://www.tomant.net/EN/merc/2011.php
Manual boxes don't have electronic interfaces,nor do 102 auto boxes,but the 111 autobox does,here lays the problem.
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stwat
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^ Yup
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frankmartin
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Marty
Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:37 am
frankmartin
Fri Jan 24, 2014 12:25 am
I searched through the net, i read them some times ago but i remember what to search.
Is not the proper answer to your question but is a good starting point.
Follow me. if you can bolt the m111 to the manual transmission of the m102, and you can change from auto to manual of the m111, why you can't change the auto from the m102 to the auto of the m111? For me it's logic but i'm not really sure about it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190-class/1351731-engine-swap-question.html

http://www.tomant.net/EN/merc/2011.php
Manual boxes don't have electronic interfaces,nor do 102 auto boxes,but the 111 autobox does,here lays the problem.
yes you are right, i'm talking about bolting it.. making it work will be a problem. maybe you can solve it with a lot of qiuds. but it will worth?
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tom_kauf
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I haven't come across any info on suitable overdrives, but I'll ask around. I won't hold my breath though...

One other option I came across is using a 722.6. Apparently it will fit and you can use a stand-alone system to run it. Russell at Sound German Auto sells the controllers and has developed the software and shift programming for it.

But $$s I assume, and as frankmartin said, but it will worth?
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eagle3
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Nah get a 2.6 and sell the 2.0. Less hassle and after a test drive you'll be smitten.

Although it's true the four gear box is a compromise and it still revs highish in fourth, the noise is so much nicer. :wub:
Edited by eagle3, Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:30 am.
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eric78
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tom_kauf
Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:52 am
I haven't come across any info on suitable overdrives, but I'll ask around. I won't hold my breath though...

One other option I came across is using a 722.6. Apparently it will fit and you can use a stand-alone system to run it. Russell at Sound German Auto sells the controllers and has developed the software and shift programming for it.

There's also a Danish bloke called Olefejur on the various diesel nutter sites that has developed an Arduino based controller for the 722.6 transmissions, he sells it for 450 Euros
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pentoman
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Such a great question.
Weren't there some W124 cars with 5-speed automatics?
I suspect one way would be to put the 5-speed gearbox in - along with the engine it came from. Especially if it came from a W124 which has very similar engine mounting points etc, since the W124 and 190 used to share engines.
There are plenty of people who do this sort of thing. There are countless cars advertised for sale with different engine/gearboxes out there - E30 BMWs, RX7s, RX8s, Golf VR6s. In fact it's a shame it's so rare for 190s.
Edited by pentoman, Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:41 am.
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poormansporsche
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i dont know nothing whatsoever but when the M104 was transplated to my car the 5 speed auto was dumped from the donor car and the original 4 speed from the 190 was used
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eagle3
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You'll have to upgrade the brakes as well.
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RobertE
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Doesn't the CLK use a version of a 102 block? It's all about the bellhousing, I think.
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PARI
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Merc 5 speed auto boxes on the m104. Had and electric over drive and was prone to ducking up. My uncle had. 300 24 v. Which had to go to the gearbox shop many a time for shifting problems. It's has a separate oil cooler too because I remember at the time when the oil cooler went bust we didn't know the car was a 5 speed auto. Anything m104 is a bit of a nightmare due to shitty head gaskets down to poor gear boxes.

Just buy a 2.6 and put ur foot down and enjoy the noise and a speed. Simples
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Landrange
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I also would like to change the engine/gearbox into something more powerful. Is it doable to put a 2,6 with autobox into my 2,0 manual without any cutting and welding?
I`ve heard that the easiest is to put in a 230E/auto! What about a 230 with kompressor from a C-class?
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