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| Auto gear changes; Sets off in 1st and slow to go in to 3rd | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:58 pm (864 Views) | |
| Gwilym | Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:58 pm Post #1 |
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3rd post on my recent auction acquisition: 1988 190E auto 2.0. Quite enjoying working through the issues and looking forward to sorting them out...hopefully! From reading other posts looks like it may be stuck in auto 's' mode as it makes 3 gear changes after setting off and, unless accelerating hard, pauses before selecting 3rd. Other gears seem slick. ATF is on the low mark and I can't find evidence of a change in the extensive history. The car appears to have been meticulously maintained until recently. If you've read my other post about the faint whirring is it possible both are connected to ATF? Oh also forgot to mention that the gas pedal needs about 40% travel before revs pick up. Is this the norm for a 190E? Edited by Gwilym, Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:05 pm.
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| Gwilym | Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:27 pm Post #2 |
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Ok I've read a few more posts in this section now so my question is does my k2 spring need replacing?
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| eagle3 | Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:43 pm Post #3 |
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Therapy Needed
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You normally set off in 2nd.. You might just need an oil and filter change for the box. |
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| Gwilym | Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:54 pm Post #4 |
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I understand that it should be setting off in 2nd gear. But my car is definitely making 3 changes after setting off, always. So for some reason it is starting in 1st gear. Could that be a symptom of old ATF? The 'flare' or delay is occurring when it changes from 2nd to 3rd and it kicks a bit after it's pause. If I lift off the gas I can make it change more lightly in to 3rd but, also, if I accelerate hard (without going as far as the kick down) it makes all changes nicely. So it's just with moderate acceleration it does it's flare going in to 3rd. Think I'm using the term 'flare' correctly having read other posts? Looks like changing the k2 spring same time as ATF change would be a logical precaution? Edited by Gwilym, Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:56 pm.
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| stwat | Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:12 pm Post #5 |
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I suspect someone's been adjusting the bowden cable and gone too far with the adjustment. http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/225914/1/ Edited by stwat, Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:17 pm.
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| Gwilym | Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:45 pm Post #6 |
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What exactly does the Bowden Cable do? I've read fairly far down the post link you kindly gave me and it doesn't explain it's function. The kickdown works fine on my car. Not familiar with mercedes cars as this is my first but when I looked at the kick down mechanism at the bottom of the accelerator pedal it appeared to be a switch mechanism. Does the Bowden cable effect the gear shifting even when you're not using kick down? |
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| stwat | Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:01 pm Post #7 |
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It affects gear chage points and how harsh or not the gearbox changes. |
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| Gwilym | Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:20 pm Post #8 |
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In that case it sounds to me that if it were the Bowden cable then all gear changes would be affected. This issue is only with the change in to 3rd gear at moderate acceleration. All other gear changes and kick down are perfect, as is the change in to 3rd under hard acceleration and, for some reason, it always starts in 1st. Edited by Gwilym, Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:22 pm.
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| Gwilym | Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:52 pm Post #9 |
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ok I've read 'deeper' in to the posts about gearbox issues and it looks like the k1 spring 2nd to 3rd gear could be part of the problem.Not that I really consider this a major problem on a car which cost me little and for which money I am very pleased...I can live with plenty of idiosyncrasies and still love the car considering what I paid! Although I suspect the previous owner has been through the same stages I am currently going through I still want the have a go but mindful to try and not needlessly replace things which have already been done and the ATF might be one of these. What I suspect now is that the ATF has been changed recently and various adjustments made. I am also guessing the previous owner gave up and put the car in to auction because some extra issues materialised which I think were the start of rust in 2 crucial places but I think those can be halted. From my earlier reading of posts it looked like the k1 and k2 springs were easily changed but is this the case because having read further one poster was quoted £1600 for solving a k1 replacement! Anyone have opinions?
Edited by Gwilym, Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:38 am.
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| stwat | Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:02 pm Post #10 |
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From what I have read and from the pictures seen, it's a fairly straight forward job to replace them. Sump off, which you would have to do anyway to change the oil and filter, then it's simply unbolting a plate each for the springs and valve bodies to be removed/replaced. In the meantime, if the oil level is still low then top it up to see if that helps. |
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| eagle3 | Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:09 pm Post #11 |
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Therapy Needed
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Oil level should be checked with engine and gearbox hot and running in P on level ground of course. |
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| stwat | Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:10 pm Post #12 |
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Indeed and after running the selector through all the gears slowly
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| Gwilym | Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:58 am Post #13 |
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I've rechecked ATF engine hot, level ground, after moving through all gears and it appears to be just below the top mark. But it's difficult to be certain because there is also oil smudging higher up the dipstick. But there is a sort of break just below the top mark which, I think, is indicating the oil level? I'm going to book in to a specialist now so they can give me their opinions.
Edited by Gwilym, Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:41 am.
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| Gwilym | Sun Aug 24, 2014 6:54 pm Post #14 |
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I'm going to add something to this before I take it to a specialist incase anyone can explain something I think is odd.When stationary, if I set the auto gear stick to 2 the car stays in that gear when I get going.....that's not the odd bit incidentally! When I set it in 3 it will shift up twice. Then if I move the stick to D it will move up one extra gear. As I have said before the car is odd because it always seems to set off in 1st gear when driving in D and I know this because it will always make 3 subsequent gear changes. So the mystery for me, given this idiosyncrasy, is that it seems to have another idiosyncrasy which is that it stays in 1st gear when I set the gear stick to 2?
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| stwat | Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:23 pm Post #15 |
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I've read about a 'first gear start' mod being done using a relay of some sort to make the gearbox always pull away in first. Maybe this has been done to yours I don't see the point myself as first gear is really short and runs out of revs very quickly. |
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| Gwilym | Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:54 am Post #16 |
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It's got a tow bar
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| Mick261c | Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:44 am Post #17 |
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Stu may have hit the nail on the head here, a tow bar might suggest a first gear start mod. |
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| eagle3 | Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:30 am Post #18 |
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Therapy Needed
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All you have to do to start in first is select 2 or put your foot down a bit in 3 or D. So any "mod" is a bit daft if you ask me. I'm not sure you have to floor it to the kickdown button in D to engage 1st; surely that would depend on the load on the engine(i.e. whether the car's starting on a steep incline, towing something or full of fat people and their luggage)? I would change oil and filter first then take it from there. Could possibly be wrong grade fluid? Also I would check brakes in case they're binding a bit.. Edited by eagle3, Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:20 am.
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| stwat | Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:47 am Post #19 |
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This was posted yesterday on mbclub forum.
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| eagle3 | Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:00 am Post #20 |
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Therapy Needed
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Interesting post. Would make sense I suppose if confined to S mode. |
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| Gwilym | Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:48 pm Post #21 |
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Fascinating replies thank you. Far beyond my enthusiasm for trying to understand the schematics. I think mine has been moded it makes total sense but what doesn't is that the switch between S or E makes absolutely no difference as far as I can tell so I think the override has probably trashed the S E selector? Eventually, if I keep the car and spend money, I will have a fluid change and k1 spring renewed and if that makes it drive better I may have this relay thing removed. Infact I may have seen the relay in the engine bay and will check against the Haynes manual to see if there is something where there shouldn't be! Something else if anyone is still reading this far. Assuming the car has had a recent ATF change, which I suspect it has, what thing do I adjust to make the car change down more readily? The Bowden Cable or the vacuum unit others have described near the gearbox? It is very reluctant to change down and if I go as far as the kick down it can do a double change which is far too harsh. Again, I think it's had a recent fluid change before I bought it but not certain.
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| Gwilym | Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:04 pm Post #22 |
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I've got an estimate now from the Merc specialist to do an ATF service and change the 2nd to 3rd gear change spring same time and, also, to have the cam chain tension re-set as that is what they think the slight 'whirr' sound is! OK so I asked for the K1 spring to be replaced same time as ATF change. However... ....the Estimate says 'B1 spring' and 'sealing Rings for B2 Piston'.Can anyone with more knowledge than me shed light on this before I query the estimate?
Edited by Gwilym, Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:05 pm.
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ok I've read 'deeper' in to the posts about gearbox issues and it looks like the k1 spring 2nd to 3rd gear could be part of the problem.


8:24 PM Jul 11