Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Photobucket
Welcome to Mercedes-190.co.uk

We are the Mercedes 190 owners forum, the place to be for all owners and fans of the Mercedes 190E, 190 and 190D cars. Including Cosworth (2.3 16v and 2.5 16v), EVO 1 and EVO 2 models. Modified and concourse, track cars and daily drivers, all are welcome.

This free UK based forum was started back in November 2005 to serve the Mercedes 190 W201 community and now has over 9000 members from all around the world and 600,000 + posts.

The members welcome you and encourage you to stay a while and have a look around.
We offer you friendly chat and access to some very useful information as well as tutorials with photos and videos for many common repair and maintenance jobs.
Whatever your needs there is a good chance you will be able to find what your looking for. Such as our Mercedes 190 buyers guide

Sign up to gain access to all areas including for sale / classified areas and country wide meetings and events. Many forum features and sections are only available once you sign up.

Join our forum at mercedes-190.co.uk!

If you're already a member please log in to your account:

**New members signing up**
please check your junk mail for the email authorization email
otherwise we cannot verify your new account.
I have noticed a lot of unauthorized accounts in the system.
Regards
Admin

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Auto gear changes; Sets off in 1st and slow to go in to 3rd
Topic Started: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:58 pm (864 Views)
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
3rd post on my recent auction acquisition: 1988 190E auto 2.0. Quite enjoying working through the issues and looking forward to sorting them out...hopefully! :help:

From reading other posts looks like it may be stuck in auto 's' mode as it makes 3 gear changes after setting off and, unless accelerating hard, pauses before selecting 3rd. Other gears seem slick.

ATF is on the low mark and I can't find evidence of a change in the extensive history. The car appears to have been meticulously maintained until recently.

If you've read my other post about the faint whirring is it possible both are connected to ATF? feckknows

Oh also forgot to mention that the gas pedal needs about 40% travel before revs pick up. Is this the norm for a 190E?
Edited by Gwilym, Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:05 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
Ok I've read a few more posts in this section now so my question is does my k2 spring need replacing? :ermm:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eagle3
Therapy Needed
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
You normally set off in 2nd..

You might just need an oil and filter change for the box.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
I understand that it should be setting off in 2nd gear.

But my car is definitely making 3 changes after setting off, always.

So for some reason it is starting in 1st gear. Could that be a symptom of old ATF?

The 'flare' or delay is occurring when it changes from 2nd to 3rd and it kicks a bit after it's pause.

If I lift off the gas I can make it change more lightly in to 3rd but, also, if I accelerate hard (without going as far as the kick down) it makes all changes nicely.

So it's just with moderate acceleration it does it's flare going in to 3rd.

Think I'm using the term 'flare' correctly having read other posts?

Looks like changing the k2 spring same time as ATF change would be a logical precaution?
Edited by Gwilym, Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:56 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


I suspect someone's been adjusting the bowden cable and gone too far with the adjustment.

http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/225914/1/

Edited by stwat, Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:17 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
What exactly does the Bowden Cable do? I've read fairly far down the post link you kindly gave me and it doesn't explain it's function.

The kickdown works fine on my car. Not familiar with mercedes cars as this is my first but when I looked at the kick down mechanism at the bottom of the accelerator pedal it appeared to be a switch mechanism.

Does the Bowden cable effect the gear shifting even when you're not using kick down?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


It affects gear chage points and how harsh or not the gearbox changes.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
In that case it sounds to me that if it were the Bowden cable then all gear changes would be affected.

This issue is only with the change in to 3rd gear at moderate acceleration.

All other gear changes and kick down are perfect, as is the change in to 3rd under hard acceleration and, for some reason, it always starts in 1st.
Edited by Gwilym, Fri Aug 22, 2014 8:22 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
:driver: ok I've read 'deeper' in to the posts about gearbox issues and it looks like the k1 spring 2nd to 3rd gear could be part of the problem.

Not that I really consider this a major problem on a car which cost me little and for which money I am very pleased...I can live with plenty of idiosyncrasies and still love the car considering what I paid!

Although I suspect the previous owner has been through the same stages I am currently going through I still want the have a go but mindful to try and not needlessly replace things which have already been done and the ATF might be one of these.

What I suspect now is that the ATF has been changed recently and various adjustments made. I am also guessing the previous owner gave up and put the car in to auction because some extra issues materialised which I think were the start of rust in 2 crucial places but I think those can be halted.

From my earlier reading of posts it looked like the k1 and k2 springs were easily changed but is this the case because having read further one poster was quoted £1600 for solving a k1 replacement!

Anyone have opinions? eatpopcorn
Edited by Gwilym, Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:38 am.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


From what I have read and from the pictures seen, it's a fairly straight forward job to replace them. Sump off, which you would have to do anyway to change the oil and filter, then it's simply unbolting a plate each for the springs and valve bodies to be removed/replaced.

In the meantime, if the oil level is still low then top it up to see if that helps.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eagle3
Therapy Needed
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Oil level should be checked with engine and gearbox hot and running in P on level ground of course.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


Indeed and after running the selector through all the gears slowly :)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
I've rechecked ATF engine hot, level ground, after moving through all gears and it appears to be just below the top mark.

But it's difficult to be certain because there is also oil smudging higher up the dipstick. But there is a sort of break just below the top mark which, I think, is indicating the oil level?

I'm going to book in to a specialist now so they can give me their opinions. "bomb"
Edited by Gwilym, Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:41 am.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
:driver: I'm going to add something to this before I take it to a specialist incase anyone can explain something I think is odd.

When stationary, if I set the auto gear stick to 2 the car stays in that gear when I get going.....that's not the odd bit incidentally!

When I set it in 3 it will shift up twice. Then if I move the stick to D it will move up one extra gear.

As I have said before the car is odd because it always seems to set off in 1st gear when driving in D and I know this because it will always make 3 subsequent gear changes.

So the mystery for me, given this idiosyncrasy, is that it seems to have another idiosyncrasy which is that it stays in 1st gear when I set the gear stick to 2? feckknows
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


I've read about a 'first gear start' mod being done using a relay of some sort to make the gearbox always pull away in first. Maybe this has been done to yours feckknows

I don't see the point myself as first gear is really short and runs out of revs very quickly.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
It's got a tow bar ^o)
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mick261c
Member Avatar
More than part of things
[ *  *  * ]
Stu may have hit the nail on the head here, a tow bar might suggest a first gear start mod.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eagle3
Therapy Needed
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
All you have to do to start in first is select 2 or put your foot down a bit in 3 or D. So any "mod" is a bit daft if you ask me. I'm not sure you have to floor it to the kickdown button in D to engage 1st; surely that would depend on the load on the engine(i.e. whether the car's starting on a steep incline, towing something or full of fat people and their luggage)?

I would change oil and filter first then take it from there. Could possibly be wrong grade fluid? feckknows

Also I would check brakes in case they're binding a bit..
Edited by eagle3, Tue Aug 26, 2014 4:20 am.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stwat
Member Avatar


This was posted yesterday on mbclub forum.

Quote:
 
One of the few things I dislike about my 500SEL is the original design of the gearbox to move off in second gear. The car feels 'heavy' and less eager away from rest than I expect from a large engined car.

First-gear can be obtained using a full throttle (kick-down) launch, but that's not really my slyle! Also, first gear can be selected manually by moving the gearlever to the B-position, but having to select gears manually defeats the object of an automatic gearbox.

I decided to wire my car to move-off in first gear automatically, but with an ability to switch back to second-gear move off for driving in snow and ice. I bought a module to achieve this, but in the end it wasn't necessary to use it.


New driving characteristics

I made a small wiring modification, adding one simple relay, which gives my car the following behaviour:

Gearbox mode switch in E position:
- Behaves exactly as per original specification
- Second move-off, unless kick-down or B-switch are used to engage first gear

Gearbox mode switch in S position:
- Automatic first gear move-off
- Changes to second gear at 8mph on light throttle
- Changes to second at progressively higher speed with larger throttle opening
- Original kick-down and B-switch fist gear hold work as normal
- Changes down to first gear at 5mph when braking

In S mode, the car feels far more keen, spirited and torquey when pulling away, in normal driving.


Method

This isn't a blow-by-blow guide. I focus here on the wiring changes needed, and I'll assume that if you’re reading this, you can do basic electrics and know how to access the components (or you know how to use google search to find out!)

My car has the factory-fitted first-gear move off relay, and I have used this to deliver the behaviour I wanted. I'm not an expert on Mercedes, but I understand that not all 126s have this relay fitted. If your car does not have this feature, I am 99% sure my method for first gear start won't work for you.

The principle of my modification is to use the brake light switch to engage the first gear move-off relay. Therefore, whenever you stop using the footbrake, the gearbox will behave as if the B switch has been operated. I use an additional relay to disable this feature when the gearbox mode switch is in the E position, and diodes to avoid back-feeds.

1.
Test whether your 126 has a working first-gear move-off relay:
- Select gearbox mode S
- Remaining stationary with the engine running, move the gear selector to B and then back to D
- Now pull away gently. If the car sets off in first gear (listen for an upchange at approx 8mph), then you’re in luck, your car has the first-gear move off relay

2.
You will need:
- a simple 5 terminal relay, one which has 87 and 87a outputs
- three diodes
- wire, connectors and cable ties

3.
- Remove the wood panel around the gear selector to access the B and S/E switch wires
- Remove the panel above the brake pedal to access the brakelight switch
- Decide on a location for your extra relay. I mounted mine under the coin tray, which works well

4.
As per wiring my diagram:
- Splice a wire into the brakelight switch, output side
- Splice a wire into the B-switch, output side
- Slice a wire into the S/E switch, output side
- Connect diodes in line
- Connect up the relay

Posted Image


5.
Test drive, then refit console components. Job done!

Have fun,



Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
eagle3
Therapy Needed
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Interesting post. Would make sense I suppose if confined to S mode.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
Fascinating replies thank you. Far beyond my enthusiasm for trying to understand the schematics.

I think mine has been moded it makes total sense but what doesn't is that the switch between S or E makes absolutely no difference as far as I can tell so I think the override has probably trashed the S E selector?

Eventually, if I keep the car and spend money, I will have a fluid change and k1 spring renewed and if that makes it drive better I may have this relay thing removed.

Infact I may have seen the relay in the engine bay and will check against the Haynes manual to see if there is something where there shouldn't be! eatpopcorn

Something else if anyone is still reading this far. Assuming the car has had a recent ATF change, which I suspect it has, what thing do I adjust to make the car change down more readily? The Bowden Cable or the vacuum unit others have described near the gearbox? feckknows

It is very reluctant to change down and if I go as far as the kick down it can do a double change which is far too harsh. Again, I think it's had a recent fluid change before I bought it but not certain. :no:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gwilym
Part of things
[ *  * ]
I've got an estimate now from the Merc specialist to do an ATF service and change the 2nd to 3rd gear change spring same time and, also, to have the cam chain tension re-set as that is what they think the slight 'whirr' sound is!

OK so I asked for the K1 spring to be replaced same time as ATF change.

However... feckknows ....the Estimate says 'B1 spring' and 'sealing Rings for B2 Piston'.

Can anyone with more knowledge than me shed light on this before I query the estimate?

:ehh:
Edited by Gwilym, Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:05 pm.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
ZetaBoards - Free Forum Hosting
Free Forums with no limits on posts or members.
Learn More · Sign-up Now
« Previous Topic · Gearbox & Clutch · Next Topic »
Add Reply


Email me if anyone replys