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| Possible fuel line issue? Car dies randomly while moving.; Fuel Line | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:33 pm (1,208 Views) | |
| hsdhingrauk | Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:33 pm Post #1 |
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Hi Guys, I have been trying to figure this one out for a while now. I have owned my car for just over a year now. When I first bought it, every now at about 50-60 mph when I kicked down fully, the car would almost jerk as if it were trying to go faster by the car would just rev without increasing speed. When I would pull off kick-down it would then ease up in speed. After about 60 mph the kick-down worked fine. Then occasionally, while in motion the car would just die on me. It would then take about 5 minutes of cranking the engine before it would finally turn over and allow me to be on my way. In between these nerve-wracking stops the engine starts without any problem or hesitation. I am not sure if these two issues are linked. It almost sounds like fuel is failing to pump through? My indy MB specialist said he could not find anything wrong. Not sure he was too interested in looking for it since of course the car never did either for him. Any thoughts? |
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| Brianstorm | Sun Oct 19, 2014 12:53 am Post #2 |
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Accumulator? |
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| aemt | Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:08 am Post #3 |
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Serial 190E Owner
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The dying then restarting when everything has cooled off a bit sounds like a bad joint in your OVP. £50 from MB to replace. It is essential to have one as a spare as this is often the first port of call for many issues on these cars. You might want to swap in a known good kickdown relay as well if the OVP does not solve the acceleration issue. I carry a spare OVP and Fuel pump relay always. These are prone to fail at any time given the age of the car. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:39 am Post #4 |
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Thanks AEMT. That is very useful information and I will be looking into both an OVP and kickdown replacement. Love this forum!! The information is invaluable. Thanks again. |
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| Gerry Lloyd | Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:23 pm Post #5 |
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Monsieur
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It could be the fuel pump relay (FPR), next to the OVP relay, behind the battery. It is easier to work on as it opens easily by sliding up the black plastic cover. Look for shaky soldering connections inside. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Tue Dec 2, 2014 11:18 am Post #6 |
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As a continuation on this topic, the car died on me twice this week and interestingly both times was within minutes of me starting the car (vs. an hour into a drive). The battery voltage is low at these times (11-12 ish) but after about 5 minutes the car will start fine. Mechanic says if it is the OVP it would be happening every time - all the time. I am not sure about that statement as shaky soldering might mean sometimes it is fine while other times it is a loose connection and therefore not working. Thoughts? I plan on buying a new FPR, OVP anyway. Might be good to replace anyway and keep as spare. |
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| eagle3 | Tue Dec 2, 2014 12:43 pm Post #7 |
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Therapy Needed
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If your battery voltage is not a steady 13.5 volts or thereabouts you may need a need a new voltage regulator on the alternator. Quite cheap - about £30 for a Bosch one. Once the brushes wear down to 5mm they're good for the recycle bin.
Edited by eagle3, Tue Dec 2, 2014 12:43 pm.
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| hsdhingrauk | Tue Dec 2, 2014 12:53 pm Post #8 |
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Thanks eagle. I can tell you quite definitively that, with heater on, headlamps on, radio on, car idling, voltage is begging to reach 12 - usually around 11. So me thinks its time to search eBay for a new Bosch voltage regulator. Is this in easy to reach part to replace or do I need my mechanic to do it? |
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| eagle3 | Tue Dec 2, 2014 1:00 pm Post #9 |
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Therapy Needed
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It's on the back of the alternator - two Philips screws to get it off(usually white plastic top). Fitting a new one is a little tricky due to length of new brushes. You have to sort of feed it in sideways to make sure the brushes make good contact with the rotor. But easy enough if you take care. Anyway it's certainly easy enough to remove the old one and check the length of the brushes. I bet they're down to 5mm. Edited by eagle3, Tue Dec 2, 2014 1:01 pm.
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| eagle3 | Tue Dec 2, 2014 1:04 pm Post #10 |
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Therapy Needed
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PS always disconnect battery earth lead before working on the car electrics(or mechanics for that matter). |
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| hsdhingrauk | Tue Dec 2, 2014 1:07 pm Post #11 |
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I want to add that when the car is driving normally and when the radiator issue is fixed, the voltage will be around 12-13. I think the radiator issue is draining this somehow. |
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| eagle3 | Tue Dec 2, 2014 1:17 pm Post #12 |
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Therapy Needed
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Nah you need a new regulator I reckon. As I say it's easy enough to check to be sure. When it comes to regulator brushes size does matter I'm afraid..
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| hsdhingrauk | Tue Dec 2, 2014 2:17 pm Post #13 |
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I will source one then. Any recos on best place to find a new one besides MB? Thanks for your time! |
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| eagle3 | Tue Dec 2, 2014 2:34 pm Post #14 |
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Therapy Needed
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Your local motor parts shop might have one. You need to get the ref from the regulator and find the same one or its current equivalent if it has been superceded. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:45 pm Post #15 |
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So the car stopped on me 3 times in as many days. Starts up within a few mins and I am fine for the rest of the drive. Sounds like a bad OVP? I have located the OVP and fuel pump. Can you replace without taking out the battering? I can squeeze my hand on the relays but having a hard time pulling them off. Suggestions? |
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| Parisien | Fri Jan 2, 2015 4:48 pm Post #16 |
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Need to take battery out truly, if a tight fit needs a lot of leverage. P |
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| hsdhingrauk | Fri Jan 2, 2015 8:53 pm Post #17 |
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That is what I was thinking when I was trying to get the FP or OVP relays out. I can reach it but not enough leverage to remove confidently and then replace. Is the battery easy to remove? Just a ratchet for each side (+ and -) and that is it? Does this sound like an OVP problem or something else? I recall seeing a post here from another member (HORATIO?) and he tried a multitude of things and ended up having to replace a bad ignition coil to finally resolve. Ideas welcome. The car will literally lose power without any warning so I have to coast to a safe stop. I turn off all electrics and crank again. The car almost acts as if it has not battery when I try to start it again....then it just kicks on and I am good. I know some of you said I might have a bad voltage regulator as well. I am thinking to drop down for a new Fuel Pump Relay, OVP Relay and a new Voltage Regulator being that all should probably be changed anyway due to age. |
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| sj190 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 12:49 pm Post #18 |
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astral done this alt brushes / cured |
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| eagle3 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 1:13 pm Post #19 |
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Therapy Needed
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This was suggested but I don't know whether they got done.. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 2:15 pm Post #20 |
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by alt brushes you mean a new voltage regulator?? Is this a DIY job or do I need to get under the car and take things apart to get to the alternator? |
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| Gaz2N | Sat Jan 3, 2015 3:13 pm Post #21 |
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Old Merc nutter
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Post a picture of your alternator as there are a few different types. Changing them is a relatively simple job but this can depend on the type of unit you have. How many miles has the car done? Gary |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 3:18 pm Post #22 |
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Posting a picture would mean I would have to raise the car first which means I need to get a jack and space in the garage to do this :-) The car has done about 10K with me and I got it with 157K on the clock. I have looked through the service history with the previous owner and I don't see the voltage regulator being replaced. Mind you he only drove it 150 miles in the years he owned it so doubt it would have been an issue for him. The only reason I think it is the voltage regulator is because when I try to start the car after it has died on the road, it acts like the battery is dying and then after a few clicks and cranks it will catch and start right up. Then with heater and headlamps on, the voltage gauge is around 11/12 rather than 13.5 where I hear it should be. |
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| eagle3 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 5:18 pm Post #23 |
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Therapy Needed
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Why do you want to get under the car? You can get at the alternator quite easily from above can't you? |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 5:34 pm Post #24 |
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Hi Eagle. Someone told me the alternator is at the bottom - obviously wrong from your comment :-) I will pop the bonnet and see if I can locate it. If that is the case I should be able to fix it quite quickly on my own (30 mins? as long as I have the tools and daylight?) I will take a picture and upload. |
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| eagle3 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 5:56 pm Post #25 |
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Therapy Needed
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Well if it's a 2.5 16V it might be a bit tricky to get to.. If it's a Bosch alternator this regulator would probably do the job http://www.webdealauto.com/fr/regulateur-d-alternateur/beru-ger005.288.1104571.340.html Edited by eagle3, Sat Jan 3, 2015 5:58 pm.
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 6:15 pm Post #26 |
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It is a 2.5-16 and I popped the bonnet and I see what looks like the alternator to the left of the engine block towards the front? It has a pulley attached to it and also a alternator cable hose I believe. Does this sound right? If so, yes you are correct it is not easy to access. Definitely not something I would attempt on my own. Since I was at the car, I started it - started right up and then I turned it off and on a few times to really test it out. After the 3rd or 4th start it would not start again - acted like a weak battery with voltage indicator showing 10-10.5. So I boosted it with my other car and started right up and battery level was at 13-14. Does this sound like regulator for sure?? I don't smell anything burning from the alternator itself so I don't think it is that. From everything I have seen and read lately, Mercs of this age the voltage regulator (wear and tear item) is the root cause. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 6:18 pm Post #27 |
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@Eagle - I located the part at MB Brentford in West London. £30+VAT - not bad! I pick it up Monday. Now the issue is how to install it or take the risk and drive the car up to the MB specialist. |
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| eagle3 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 6:45 pm Post #28 |
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Therapy Needed
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You could have a tired battery as well.. The brushes won't burn when they wear out, they just get too short to make good contact with the rotor and the charge current diminishes.. |
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| eagle3 | Sat Jan 3, 2015 6:57 pm Post #29 |
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Therapy Needed
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You might be better off taking off the bottom panel and going underneath.. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 8:33 pm Post #30 |
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The battery seems "new-ish" and was replaced within the last few years with an original MB battery. I am going to try and get a good reading on the charge. It usually charges just fine. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sat Jan 3, 2015 10:14 pm Post #31 |
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Does anyone know the battery specs I should look for? I guess I can get a Bosch S4 at ECP? |
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| Gaz2N | Sat Jan 3, 2015 11:16 pm Post #32 |
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Bosch S4 should be fine. You'll want at least a 60Ah one. You say the battery was replaced a few years ago, but how many? If the car is left outside and not used a great deal you will only get maybe 4 years of life from it. If the voltage reg hasn't been replaced and the car has done just shy of 160k it needs to be changed. Usually the brushes will start to become very short once the car has done 130k. I know its mentioned above but it's worth changing the OVP relay and Fuel Pump relay over. I would recommend anyone who owns a Merc from this period to keep one of each spare in their glovebox anyway. Hope that this helps and good luck with it! Gary |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Jan 4, 2015 12:56 am Post #33 |
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Thanks Gary! Yes, I have been advised on the spare relays. Trying to source a Fuel Pump Relay as MB want £100 for a new one. OVP is not so bad at £50 new. I figure by replaying battery (Bosch S4), voltage regulator (new from MB), OVP Relay (new from MB) and Fuel Pump Relay (source not sure yet) I should be good to go for a while. Just had the radiator replaced with a new one. Found a new AC condensor in Germany which I am hoping to get my hands on. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Jan 4, 2015 1:05 am Post #34 |
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Prior to me, the car was sat for extended periods of time I am sure but with a new battery. I have driven it virtually every day since I have owned it and it has been fine. So I am not sure if it is the battery or simply the voltage regulator. I jumped the car with cables today and the voltage went right up and stayed there while I was idling. This makes me think it is the voltage regulator as when I drive it these days I have the heater on and headlamps on. Between these two, the battery voltage seems to go down markedly. Possible cause is the battery is not getting charged up again while engine running due to short brushes on VR? |
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| eagle3 | Sun Jan 4, 2015 6:19 am Post #35 |
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Therapy Needed
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You can tell if the regulator is good for changing by measuring the lengths of the brushes but I would just get a new one since they don't cost much. If the brushes are ok you can keep it for a spare. Don't write the battery off just yet.. Edited by eagle3, Sun Jan 4, 2015 6:19 am.
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Jan 4, 2015 4:30 pm Post #36 |
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So I had to get a jump for the battery again this morning. Started right up...voltage at around 13.5. Drove it for a few mins. Turned off and could not get it to start again - just acts like a dead battery. So is that what this is? a bad battery? Sounds like it? |
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| eagle3 | Sun Jan 4, 2015 5:13 pm Post #37 |
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Therapy Needed
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You'll have to charge the battery up and see if it holds charge. Driving it for a few minutes isn't going to charge the battery even if the voltage regulator is in perfect condition. |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Jan 4, 2015 6:39 pm Post #38 |
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So I had to get a jump for the battery again this morning. Started right up...voltage at around 13.5. Drove it for a few mins. Turned off and could not get it to start again - just acts like a dead battery. So is that what this is? a bad battery? Sounds like it? |
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| hsdhingrauk | Sun Jan 4, 2015 7:09 pm Post #39 |
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Bosch S4 battery at Euro Car Parts is on sale for £83. Exact spec as the battery I have installed. Thinking if it is not the solution at least it is preventative maintenance? |
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| balamb37 | Sun Jan 4, 2015 8:04 pm Post #40 |
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Grumpy Old Grampa with Dog
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I read that you 'jump started it a couple of times, the OVP doesn't take kindly to jump starts, I would think the fuse on the top of it is blown. or you have opened up a 'Dry joint' inside of it.
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or you have opened up a 'Dry joint' inside of it.
9:19 AM Jul 11