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Cooling system advice - 2.6; Thinking of overhauling
Topic Started: Sun May 3, 2015 10:24 am (2,152 Views)
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Hi guys

Looking for some advice on the refreshing the cooling system in my 190 2.6. A couple of things have prompted this:

* Coolant change due
* Noisy water pump at operating temp
* Temp raises when the car is stationary (not sure if this is thermo playing up or viscous coupling on fan)
* Some coolant loss - can see coolant deposits around the thermostat housing and water pump (common problem?)

The brakes and chassis on my car is pretty much all new, so it makes sense that this next main system in line gets renewed/refreshed.

At the moment am looking to replace:

* Water pump
* Thermostat
* Possibly viscous coupling on fan

Just thinking if I do this lot, is it worth replacing the radiator too? Are they prone to failure or are they pretty solid and therefore unnecessary? What would you advise?

The other question is suppliers - are there ECP parts that match OE MB/supplier quality, or is the standard poor? Not keen on repeating this job in 2 yrs because the parts weren't up to scratch.

Your thoughts and advice would be much appreciated.
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worthingmercedes
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have a look at the heater matrix pipes next to the wiper motor they can leak small amounts of coolant too.
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worthingmercedes
Sun May 3, 2015 10:38 am
have a look at the heater matrix pipes next to the wiper motor they can leak small amounts of coolant too.
Will do, thanks
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eagle3
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When stationary you should be able to hear the viscous fan doing its job. Difficult to tell just looking at it but the noise will increase when it kicks in. It may only stay on for brief periods before cutting out again.

I would give the radiator a good flush. Best to remove it and turn it upside-down and reverse flush(hose in bottom outlet). If it's not leaking no need to change it.

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Cheers Eagle. Fan runs all the time as it should but I don't think the speed increases as the temp rises. Could be thermostat I guess.
I think I will sort out the water pump and do some proper investigating when it's all apart.
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eagle3
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The fan turns all the time but only engages and starts sucking air through the rad when the temperature is above the specified amount(about 90-95 degrees, not sure exactly).

If you wait long enough with the car idling you should eventually hear the woosh of air, which may only be brief. It's a very efficient fan when it's pulling air.
Edited by eagle3, Sun May 3, 2015 12:17 pm.
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optimusprime
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Also check rear lifting eye on the rear right hand side of cylinder head , on the rear of it is this O ring that wants replacing..the eye is held on with 3 cap screws or allen bolts .I replaced water pump and all that was worn or noisy including tensioner and pullys. And the belt most important . And i was still finding water on the floor ,it runs down the back of engine on to the floor.The pipe comes from the head and takes water up to the heater . . Also the bracket holding the tensioner to engine must have sealer on the bolt or you will get a slight oil leak from it.
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worthingmercedes
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thermostat should kick in bang on 92 degrees always.
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Cheers guys, appreciate all the input. Seems I have a fair amount to check over!

Any suggestions on suppliers? Original OE pump or worth sourcing good aftermarket from ECP et al?
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eagle3
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worthingmercedes
Sun May 3, 2015 12:26 pm
thermostat should kick in bang on 92 degrees always.
It starts to open at 87C by my book. Fully open at 102C.
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eagle3
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oops double post :$
Edited by eagle3, Sun May 3, 2015 6:05 pm.
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optimusprime
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Hi can you check the viscose fan .You can roll a piece of paper up and as you car is up to temp carefully put the rolled up news paper in the to the radiator. fan blades, if it stops the fan blades your viscouse fan is shot. Critical ,,, dont put you hand near the fan or you will get hurt.
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worthingmercedes
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INFRARED TACHOMETER! on all 190e the thermostat opens at 92c (that is when the coolant begins circulating) nothing to do with the Viscous fan! the correct way to determine slippage is to measure fan speed relative to engine speed and divide the former by the latter anything less then 95% would become progressively problematic. hope this helps a little? Chris
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Thanks for the all the input chaps, time to roll my sleeves up!
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optimusprime
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worthingmercedes
Tue May 5, 2015 6:58 pm
INFRARED TACHOMETER! on all 190e the thermostat opens at 92c (that is when the coolant begins circulating) nothing to do with the Viscous fan! the correct way to determine slippage is to measure fan speed relative to engine speed and divide the former by the latter anything less then 95% would become progressively problematic. hope this helps a little? Chris
Well fine but how do you check fan speed . Just pop in a news paper if it stops is shot....
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Optimus, thanks for all your input mate. Did the newspaper test yesterday - let the coolant temp get high (100) - fan speed still slow (as seen at cold idle). Did the newspaper test, stopped it dead immediately. Reckon it's shot!!
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kentronix
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I'm only really here for the Kitchens

Is the thermostat housing metal of the original plastic ? If it is plastic I would replace with the metal one. Make sure you don't over tighten the bolts they snap easily.
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Mercdon
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Thu May 7, 2015 11:10 am
Optimus, thanks for all your input mate. Did the newspaper test yesterday - let the coolant temp get high (100) - fan speed still slow (as seen at cold idle). Did the newspaper test, stopped it dead immediately. Reckon it's shot!!
My viscous has gone, have to put the heater on full blast with the windows down when it creeps up in stationary traffic. Let me know if you get a group buy :P

I did my water pump last year, I went with an MB one but I do 14k a year in mine so wanted the 2 year guarantee. If you are planning to change the pump then its worth sourcing the metal pipe that connects into it. Mine was completely seized in and they arent that robust so will easily break if force is applied. MB want silly money (80quid ) but I did find one for 22 quid from a local motor shop.

cheers
paul

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Kentronix, metal housing on mine.

Mercdon, cheers for the tips. Going for a genuine part too, taking no chances. Will let you know on the viscous coupling front to help you source one.
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Called my local dealer this morning, parts prices are:

Pump £196 + VAT
Viscous coupling £107 + VAT

Seems MB older parts are getting pricier by the day!

I've always bought genuine parts, but at these prices I'm hesitating a bit. Does anyone have any suggestions for top notch aftermarket suppliers? Who are OE supplying companies for these parts?

Optimusprime mentioned Meyle - any good?



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optimusprime
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Metrics i was lucky my viscose fan was fine . You could look for a second hand one off ebay ,but thats me .Look at eurocarparts see if they have one .Just remember if you remove the blade that it goes back the same place it was removed from .Or you will blow air out instead of sucking it in ..
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eagle3
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You can certainly get a cheaper pump. Do you have the MB part number? There seems to be two different models(which look similar). But I wouldn't go real cheap. SKF and Febi both do after-market pumps of decent quality.

Not a bad price for the visco-coupler though. Maybe do that first(if you're sure it's not working) and see if things improve..
Edited by eagle3, Fri May 8, 2015 12:48 pm.
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nullogik
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metrics
Fri May 8, 2015 12:13 pm
Called my local dealer this morning, parts prices are:

Pump £196 + VAT



Yes, 190 water pumps are very expensive from the dealer. I contacted them about 3 months back and was quoted ~£250 incl. core exchange credit and its not even a brand new piece but a refurbed one!

Replaced it with a £80 German made one bought off the internet.

As Eagle said don't go for the dirt cheapest pump. You don't want the unnecessary hassle of doing the job twice.
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optimusprime
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I purchased a MEYLE pump it was made in Germany nice quality well made ,works a treat.
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optimusprime
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Keep us up to date with your plans .
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metrics
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Hi guys

Still not had the time to sort this yet :(

Am struggling to source a good quality German made pump, other than the £240 odd that MB want.

ECP have a brand called KWP - anyone have any experience of them? Apparently they are OE quality and supply VW Audi group?

Anyone know where can source a Febi one? I've had good experiences in the past of Febi.
Edited by metrics, Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:36 am.
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eagle3
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SKF are usually good quality and not too pricey. I saw this Hella pump which looked good value as well. http://www.oscaro.com/pompe-a-eau-hella-8mp-376-803-531-4380873-1260-p

There are all the references of other brands, including the Febi. But you need to confirm the exact model as there are slight differences between them. Try to get the MB reference of your pump before ordering.
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optimusprime
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My m103 2.6 engine was fitted with a Meyle pump i fitted it my self number 1032003701 along with new Meyle tensioner and serpentine belt, pullys were ok .
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OK, so with much embarrassment I have to admit I haven't sorted this yet :ermm: Life is just too busy and as much as I know I can do this myself I've admitted defeat and booked the car into my local specialist <shakes head in shame>

So, next dilemma - which parts to use? I called my local dealer again and the pump on my car appears chassis number specific. Of course they won't provide me with a part number of the part for my exact car, leaving me open to the law of sod - order a Febi part and end up with the wrong version...

So I've admitted defeat (again) and ordered all genuine MB parts:

* Water pump
* Rubber pipe section (2" long bit)
* Metal pipe O ring seal
* Pipe (required with the pump due to modified pump from original)
* Aux belt
* Viscous coupling
* New securing bolt

My car also has a leaking goalpost seal, dropping oil over the front of the engine so getting this done too:

* Seal
* Rocker cover gasket (as the rocker needs to come off to do the seal)

Not a cheap order.
All sound about right? Anything I've missed off? The aux belt is noisy on my car - so a new belt should be sufficient??

Finally, can I use an decent glycol antifreeze? I have some Prestone - ok for these M103 engines?
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eagle3
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Quote:
 
All sound about right? Anything I've missed off? The aux belt is noisy on my car - so a new belt should be sufficient??


Check tensioner and idler pulleys. They may need changing if "noisy" when spun by hand.
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stwat
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Get the coolant/antifreeze from the dealers. It's not that pricey.
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eagle3
Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:58 pm
Quote:
 
All sound about right? Anything I've missed off? The aux belt is noisy on my car - so a new belt should be sufficient??


Check tensioner and idler pulleys. They may need changing if "noisy" when spun by hand.


Cheers Eagle. If gone, MB only or are there decent OE suppliers out there?

stwat
Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:10 pm
Get the coolant/antifreeze from the dealers. It's not that pricey.


Ordinarily I'd do the same stwat, but I bought a couple of 5l bottles from Costco back in the summer! Ok to use or avoid and go MB?

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eagle3
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The pulleys don't cost a fortune. About £20 each. I found some without going to Mercedes but they can't be much more at the stealers I shouldn't think.

As for Antifreeze you should have -35C protection. Not that it's going to get that cold but it needs to be quite concentrated to limit corrosion in the engine. I would get stuff that meets MB sheet 325 spec.
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Cheers Eagle!
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Oddbod
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I have noticed that some 2.6s have twin fans in front of the radiator. I don't know why some examples have this arrangement whereas others do not but the ones that I have seen look too consistent to be an aftermarket job.

Twin fans might help with cooling problems, although any root cause needs to be, er, rooted out first.
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stwat
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The twin fans are for cars fitted with A/C.
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Paulossie
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Potato

One day I'm going to give this a go in all my cars.

http://www.evanscoolants.co.uk/Coolants/Automotive/classic_cool_180

If you are going to refurbish the cooling system you should not have any problem unless you have something pierce the system somewhere then you will have to replace all coolant fluid, but in the mean time you are able to top it up with water to get you where you need to go. There are a lot of benefits to using this stuff most motorsports use it now. Its not as cheep as antifreeze and water though but I like trying new technology.

http://www.oemoffhighway.com/article/10449622/why-arent-the-engine-oems-already-using-waterless-coolants
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So, car is with my local specialist and just got a call - radiator also shot :(

Any suggestions on where to source a quality part? ECP don't stock it, but can get one made by Ava?? GSF don't stock it at all. Mercedes want £370 and need 5 working days to order from Germany.

Only managed to find on on eBay, but no idea on the quality of the part. If I go aftermarket I'd rather go with a quality brand like Behr/Hella.

Top man Gary on here suggested Nissens, but I cannot find a supplier for these?

Any suggestions guys?
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eagle3
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Found this Nissens rad here http://www.oscaro.com/radiateur-du-moteur-nissens-62582a-750638-470-p
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airtight
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I've been looking for a radiator fan clutch for my 1989 2.6 and found one on the site below. When I input my reg. number they show a nissen radiator for a 2.6. Don't know if you could get one cheaper elsewhere but it's a start.

Nissen radiator
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