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2.5 Diesel loss of power
Topic Started: Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:31 pm (396 Views)
MJK 24
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I've had my 190 since September and done approaching 2,000 miles without incident. Today, on the motorway I was cruising along at about 65mph and I felt it was struggling. Then it was REALLY struggling!

Got it to the hardshoulder and when we stopped, it was running rough and then cut out. I managed to restart it after approx 5 seconds of cranking (usually starts in 1 second) and it ran quite smooth. It didn't want to rev though and when I tried to make it rev, I could see a little smoke from the tailpipe.

I opened the bonnet and had a look at the transparent fuel lines. There was a tiny quantity of air but nothing out the ordinary. I revved the balls out of it for a few seconds with my head under the bonnet and it seemed to clear it's throat.

Jumped back in and it drove away running like a Swiss Watch again.

I have only ever run it on Esso diesel.

I bought it from MTSV and it has literally a mountain of history so I thin it's been well maintained. Previous owner had it 4 years and spent £5,500 at M Star in Manchester in that time.

It was last serviced in March at 141,000. That was all fluids and all filters including box, PAS and diff. All I've done since is a quick intermediate oil changes. All filters are Merc branded. The leak off pipes look very recent too.

Does anyone know what this might be? I experienced similar in my Mk2 Scirocco diesel earlier in the year. That didn't lose power so much as turn itself off. It too has a Bosch mechanical pump but it has a 12v feed to the stop solenoid which was the issue. The pump on the 190 doesn't seem to have the same set up - looks to be vacumn operated?

Any advice would be much appreciated!
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Greek Taxi
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I can only think you had a blockage somewhere.
Remember that as well as the main fuel filter there's the little inline one. Plus there's a strainer that is on the fuel tank outlet that gets clogged up.
A blockage to the air intake would also strangle power. Something got stuck on the front of the car? Unlikely, but possible.

Is your car the light blue auto Mark was selling? If so it looked like a mega bargain, I had to lock myself away until it sold. I'm only down the road from MTSV and I was very tempted.
I'd have nabbed it but I've put too much love into my little 1.8, so I looked away.
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MJK 24
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Someone else mentioned a strainer in the tank so I'll take a look at that when the fuel level drops as I have just brimmed it tonight!

Yes it's light blue. Pearl Blue might be the correct name for it. Mechanically it is perfect. It's had a fortune spent on it. 35 services in 24 years! Cosmetically it looks good from 10ft away but if you're very close ie if you were waxing it, there's little marks here and there. It's something to daily drive rather than a concours queen I suppose.
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MJK 24
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Greek Taxi
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I'd be dead pleased with that car. I didn't twig when posting on your other threads that this was what you bought.
Use it and enjoy it, I say, it'll get better the more it gets driven. And stick a few more scratches on it, make it properly yours.
Good to see you have the proper wheels and flogged the alloys. I let my alloys float away to Gambia and was glad to let them go.
Lots of threads on diesel problems if you trawl back. Here's one I started which resulted in me taking the tank and tank strainer out. http://mercedes-190.co.uk/topic/6728614/1/#new
Seems like a long time ago now.
Edited by Greek Taxi, Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:10 pm.
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MJK 24
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So is the fuel gravity fed out the tank and alone the underbody fuel lines? And then the lift pump just pulls it up the bulkhead and towards the injection pump?

On that basis I'm guessing the strainer isn't actually inside the tank?
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Greek Taxi
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The strainer screws into the tank. And the outlet hose screws into the strainer.
It's a dirty old job changing it.
You're correct about how the lift pump works.

The US site PeachParts is great for diesel problems.
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MJK 24
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If I get the car up in the air on a lift, can it be done from underneath or does the tank need to be removed?

Thanks for all the advice!
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Bradders
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It can only be done from underneath. There is a big rubber boot which covers the connection, once you pull that down out of the way, its all obvious and pretty simple. Because my car runs on vegoil the strainer in the tank has been chopped if and I don't miss it.
I wouldn't make this your first port of call though. Change the main filter and prefilter (under the air filter housing) first.
It definitely sounds like a filter blockage to me though. If fuel can get to the pump theres not much that will stop one of these engines, other than air being sucked in.
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MJK 24
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I take it when the strainer is removed, diesel is going to pour out the tank so it needs to be as empty as possible?

Both fuel filters were changed 4,000 miles ago.
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Tollie
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I had to extract and clean the in-tank filter on mine a couple of times when I ran it on veg. oil.
As a preventative measure, I then started to give the fuel pipe (at a convenient joint where it enters the engine compartment) an occasional blowback with the compressed air until I would hear the bubbling in the tank and thus cleaning the filter.
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Bradders
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MJK 24
Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:10 am
I take it when the strainer is removed, diesel is going to pour out the tank so it needs to be as empty as possible?

Both fuel filters were changed 4,000 miles ago.
Yes. Any fuel left in the tank will pour out when you do the job. Mine has a join from flexible to solid pipe somewhere around the front of the n/s/r wheel. I undid the join there and drained the remaining fuel out.
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MJK 24
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Just happened again on the NSL dual carriageway to the gym.

It is as if the engine simply turns itself off, rather than loses power. The accelerator pedal does nothing at all and when it comes to a stop the engine has turned off. It's just momentum turning the engine over.

Took quite a bit of restarting and then it was only running on 4 or maybe even 3 with some, but not a huge amount of smoke from the exhaust.

Took maybe 30 seconds to clear its throat via me manipulating the accelerator pedal and then we were good to go again.

any ideas?!
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Daliscar
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Air in the fuel lines? feckknows But how ?
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Bradders
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Or possibly contaminated fuel ? I think I would change all filters even though they are newish, drain the fuel and chuck a couple of gallons in from a different station, just to eliminate possible causes, then start looking for air in the system.
Check leak off pipes carefully. I had problems with mine cracking right down where they connect to the injectors and it wasn't that obvious.
It caused mayhem with the engines running until I found the problem.
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MJK 24
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It has done it on two different tanks of fuel now so that might rule that out.

Agree re changing fuel filters - going to do that this morning!
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MJK 24
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It's air.

Just happened on the way to buy new filters. Happened again so I lifted the bonnet and the transparent lines must have been 40% to 50% air.

Where from is a different question!
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Bradders
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Carefully check all connections on all the fuel pipes, including leak off pipes.
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Greek Taxi
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Leak-off pipes are a specific diameter. I got two sizes of generic pipe from a motor factor before I realised - one was too narrow, the other ever-so-slightly too wide.
Get pipe from a dealership, the pipe was light grey when I bought some about four years ago.
Re. other piping, I never had to change that. But again, I'd go the dealer route because getting it wrong isn't worth the hassle.
I bet Mark Taylor has replaced metres of the stuff.
Edited by Greek Taxi, Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:10 pm.
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MJK 24
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All sorted now I think.

Took it to the garage that has the service contract for our trucks.

The 'blank' leak off pipe didn't seem to be a great fit so that was replaced with new. The newer piece was a smaller diameter but a soak in boiling water persuaded it on. Interestingly this piece looked old whereas the rest of the leak off pipes look brand new and were all a tight fit.

What seemed to have been the main problem was the short rubber outlet pipe exiting the inline fuel filter. This was old looking and virtually rock hard. We replaced this and fitted a new inline filter. No more air.

We then replaced the main fuel filter too as a 'belt and braces' approach. It managed to cover 1.5 miles in 60 seconds down the bypass coming home so I'm pretty sure that's problem solved. It was cutting out at just 50mph on the way down.

Whilst the inline filter was removed, I asked them to blow the airlines back to the tank with compressed air. They didn't think there was any blockage as the diesel was literally gushing out with the filter removed but they did it anyway and I could hear it gurgling in the tank when I put my ear to the filler neck.

They did advice me to change from jubilee clips to proper fuel hose clips when I get a chance so I'll do that.

Hopefully we're back on an even keel now!

Thanks everyone for taking the time to advise :-)
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Daliscar
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Good news. Glad it’s sorted, sounds like a cheap fix too .
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MJK 24
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Daliscar
Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:01 pm
Good news. Glad it’s sorted, sounds like a cheap fix too .

Yes, they do loads of jobs on the cars without ever charging which is very generous of them. They did the timing belt on my aunties Lupo and put a clutch in my brothers Fiesta and wouldn't take a penny for either job.
Edited by MJK 24, Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:14 pm.
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Greek Taxi
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It's amazing what havoc a seemingly tiny air leak can cause.
If you've fixed it, this thread is great example of looking for the simple and obvious first.
Fingers crossed.
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MJK 24
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Happened again! Stranded at the side of the road!

Inline filter is full of diesel this time but I'm wondering if it and or the main filter are blocked.
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MJK 24
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Got back to base.

Inline filter has collapsed. Will replace with genuine or Mann tomorrow AM!
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Oil burner
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MJK 24
Sun Jan 7, 2018 4:19 pm
Got back to base.

Inline filter has collapsed. Will replace with genuine or Mann tomorrow AM!
What sort of inline filter was fitted as it should be a gauze type, but I have seen many diesels fitted with paper filters which collapses under pressure.
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MJK 24
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Oil burner
Sun Jan 7, 2018 9:35 pm
MJK 24
Sun Jan 7, 2018 4:19 pm
Got back to base.

Inline filter has collapsed. Will replace with genuine or Mann tomorrow AM!
What sort of inline filter was fitted as it should be a gauze type, but I have seen many diesels fitted with paper filters which collapses under pressure.
Paper. Which has indeed collapsed!

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MJK 24
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New Mann filter (metal gauze) and it's running like a Swiss Watch again.

£1.36
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Oil burner
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MJK 24
Mon Jan 8, 2018 1:00 pm
New Mann filter (metal gauze) and it's running like a Swiss Watch again.

£1.36
I used to change that filter on all my 190d that I have owned over the years more than what was needed.
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